The Winner Of The Debate: Mike Trout

I am so old that the previous two Triple Crowns were won in a) the first year I had any awareness of the game, and b) the first year I was a true fan.

I got kinda spoiled.

It was – and is – a singular accomplishment. Miguel Cabrera deserves all the praise. He deserves to be in the company of F. Robby and Yaz and all the rest. He does not deserve the Most Valuable Player Award.

I know, I know, I’m the traditionalist and the one who whined here about Felix Hernandez getting the Cy Young last year. And I’m not going to hang this entirely on the idea that historically there was nothing automatic about a Triple Crown equaling MVP (ask not just Ted Williams, but Lou Gehrig). But I also have an appreciation of (if not a slavish dedication to) all the statistics that have come into the game since Carl Yastrzemski’s matchless September got him his place in history in 1967. And the thing being left out of the arguments about Cabrera versus Mike Trout is that the reason “The Triple Crown” was such a big deal all that time was that it wasn’t just the imaginary title we gave the leader of three Glamor Batting Categories – it was the imaginary title we gave the leader of the only three batting categories we had.

I exaggerate only slightly here. The years that the baseball cards were horizontal and not vertical, we also got Games Played, At Bats, Hits, Doubles and Triples printed on the back. Well, those were just for us kids, right? What about the grown-up stuff?

Who’s Who In Baseball - the softcover handbook, still printed, the last vestige of the fabled baseball publishing industry of the 1930′s – offered exactly what the baseball cards did…plus stolen bases.

Still, that was nowhere near official. What about the bible of the game? The veritable New Phone Book of the season ahead and the season behind? What about The Sporting News Official Baseball Guide? It dated to 1942 and its antecedents stretched back to Beadle’s Dime Base-Ball Player edited by Henry Chadwick in 1860.

Here’s exactly what were considered baseball’s official stats the year Yaz did The Miggy:

(Sorry for the warping. My ’68 guide still has some spine left to it)

This is way more sophisticated, no? Games, At Bats, Runs, Hits, Total Bases (ooooh, Total Bases), Two Base Hits, Three Base Hits, Homers, RBI, Sacrifice Hits, Sacrifice Flies, Stolen Bases, Caught Stealing, and “Percentage” – Batting Average.

By the way, Caught Stealing was a revolutionary statistical addition.

Notice anything missing there? I don’t mean WAR and VORP and OPS and UZR and RISP and Percentage of Pitchers Faced With ERA under 4.00. I mean:

In 1968 baseball’s OFFICIAL STATISTICS DID NOT EVEN INCLUDE ON BASE, OR SLUGGING PERCENTAGE.

The Triple Crown was The Triple Crown because it was the most sophisticated measurement of a batter’s total impact on the game. And in terms of historical placement, it was a gold mine. When Frank Robinson and Carl Yastrzemski won their Crowns we were still a couple of years away from The Baseball Encyclopedia. What those of us who did not have complete runs of The Sporting News Guide, The Reach Guide, The Spalding Guide, The Players’ League Guide, and Beadle’s Dime Base-Ball Player had, was The Official Encyclopedia Of Baseball.

In one fan’s lifetime, in my trip from an eight-year old going to his first Yankee game to the 53-year old sitting in the front row last night going deaf from the excessive PA system, who used to host the telecasts of the World Series before the turn of the century (!), we went from what you see to the left, to WAR and PZR.

That – Full Name, Birth Date, Birth Place, Date of Death (sometimes), Batted/Threw (sometimes), Games Played, Won-Lost Record, and Batting Average – was all that we had for the official baseball historical record the last time somebody won the Triple Crown before Miguel Cabrera did it last night. No homers, no RBI, no Slugging Percentage – no hits, no runs, no errors!

And – you’re right – Ruth’s entry is the most sophisticated one in the book because he was a pitcher and a position player! 

So I applaud what Cabrera did, and I want to buy him something to thank him for doing something that merely reminds me of the excitement of a player sweeping the statistical board – as we thought we knew it – when I was a kid.

But I’ve grown up (somewhat) and so have the statistics. And I won’t labor them anew here but Mike Trout had a remarkable season according to the closest thing we have to an all-encompassing number, WAR:

AMERICAN LEAGUE WAR (2012)

1. TROUT, Los Angeles (10.72)

2. CANO, New York (8.23)

3. VERLANDER, Detroit (7.44)

4. CABRERA, Detroit (6.95)

5. BELTRE, Texas (6.66)

6. PRICE, Tampa Bay (6.47)

7. GORDON, Kansas City (6.28)

8. HARRISON, Texas (6.09)

9. SALE, Chicago (5.80)

10. ZOBRIST, Tampa Bay (5.6)

11. HUNTER, Los Angeles (5.5)

12. JACKSON, Detroit (5.30)

In short, Trout was about 30 percent more valuable than the runner-up (and that’s with Robinson Cano’s explosive finish), and he doubled the value of the 12th best player in the league. For contrast, the top five guys in NL War finished in a grouping of 0.5 (Buster Posey 7.2, McCutchen 7.0, Braun 6.8, Molina 6.7, Wright 6.7) allowing room for interpretation and argument. To get down to half the value of the WAR champ, you have to go to Carlos Beltran and David Freese and a tie for 33rd.

That room for argument is non-existant in the American League. Miguel Cabrera won a Triple Crown, and Mike Trout’s season was 54 percent more valuable. 

Which is, at minimum, the added value of all the new statistics, since Yaz won, and I was a kid, and there were only 20 teams – and “The Triple Crown” was the best we had.

 

97 Comments

Why can’t we make it easy and say that Trout & Miggy are offensively close enough that Trout deserves the award b/c he plays out of this world defense and steals bases….where Miggy is an average/below average defender…

(RBI & BA are meaningless/antiquated stats. Miggy’s OPS does not separate him from Trout.)

What meaningless/antiquated stats are you basing your defensive conclusions on?

There’s something about Mr Cabrera from the beginning of the season that we’re forgetting, which has to be said.

When Prince Fielder came in from the Brewers, Miguel was switched from 1st to 3rd base, after several years of not playing the position – “go back to third and make a defensive fool of yourself”… yet no complaint was heard from the man. Many pundits predicted a Tiger defensive disaster… yet no complaint was heard from the man, and Detroit ended up #12 overall in MLB fielding, out of 30 teams. A .966 fielding % and 19 errors is NOT a Dr Strangeglove scenario in a year of defensive transition.

Put in a very awkward situation, Cabrera led by example of “for the good of the team” spirit and professionalism (the opposite of a diva), and won himself a Triple Crown to boot! If as a baseball fan that doesn’t impress you, turn in your credentials now.

Have you ever heard a jazz quartet take itself to the next level when a superior guest musician jams with them that night? Without question Cabrera inspired his teammates and he gets my MVP “applause vote”.

While I like the WAR stat, it still isn’t perfect and shouldn’t be used as the sole measurement for an MVP award. WAR compares players at the same position, which makes it easy to determine the most valuable player at that certain position. However, comparing WAR from position to position doesn’t make sense to me. What the WAR numbers tell me, is that there was overall better play throughout the league at third base than the outfield, since Trout’s WAR is so high and Cabrera’s is relatively low for the numbers he put up.

I do think there is a strong argument for both players, and I believe Trout’s defense could be the deciding factor in the MVP race if people aren’t blinded by the triple crown numbers.

Love the blog.

1. The games count the same in April as they do in September. This is not a difficult concept. Besides, “coming up big”/ clutch does not exist: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2656

2. Trout OPS in September = .836. Yeah, that’s quite a disappearance.

Just a thought, a stat for “coming up big” / clutch doesn’t sound that difficult, off the top of my head maybe “low strikeout ratio” + high BABIP with RISP, then maybe add “in late innings” in there.

What set apart Yaz in 1967, besides the Triple Crown, was his superhuman performance in the pennant race. Delivering in September is huge in my book. Let’s compare Cabrera and Trout in September:

AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Cabrera 104 22 32 6 0 10 27 13 24 0 0 .308 .378 .654 1.032
Trout 101 21 26 3 1 5 6 20 32 6 0 .257 .380 .455 .835

The key points: Cabrera wins in HR, 10-5; RBI, 27-6; BA, .308-.257, and Slugging, .654-.455. OBP is virtually identical. Trout, of course, wins in stolen bases.

If you want to be an MVP you have to deliver when it counts. Cabrera did, Trout didn’t.

Uh, it all counts. That’s why we look at the whole season instead of cherry-picking small sample sizes. Miggy can be player of the month for September I guess though…

So you’re effectively saying there’s no difference between coming up big in April and doing the same in September. And it’s fine to disappear — as Trout pretty much did — in September when your team is struggling (and ultimately failing) to make the playoffs.

I doubt even you believe that.

Of course it all counts, but as a sample look at the Rangers, leading their division for 161 games, then relegated to the wildcard on game 162. Math as a block for 162 games is good in retrospect, but there’s also distribution. You may score a thousand runs in May, but only a hundred in September.
Please don’t get me wrong, I believe in Bill James, but I’m still not sure if things go back to square one when every team has a sabermetrics department.

1. The games count the same in April as they do in September. This is not a difficult concept. Besides, “coming up big”/ clutch does not exist: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2656
2. Trout OPS in September = .836. Yeah, that’s quite a disappearance.

Oh God spare me the “clutch doesn’t exist ” trope. Only Stat geeks who never played beyond junior high buy that one. But I realize you guys all have to drink the BP Kool Aid. Sort of like Tea Partiers an Fox News.

I played in high school, as if it matters….

Do you know what an ad hominem is though?

I guess I’d go that way too if the facts weren’t on my side.

Try addressing the other points I made. I’ll wait…

People like you have been misinterpreting that old Sheehan piece since he wrote it. He in fact says: “The correct idea is that clutch performances exist, and clutch players exist: every last one of them.”

His point is that over the course of an entire career the statistics don’t support a player being more “clutch” than others. But certainly over a period of time — a game, a week, the month of September — a player can perform better than another. And in virtually every offensive category Cabrera significantly outperformed Trout when his team needed it most.

If Trout had done the same in September his team might still be playing. But he fell off significantly from his extraordinary numbers in the previous months.

I never said — nor would I — that Cabrera is more of a clutch player than Trout. They’re both obviously terrific ballplayers. All I said — and the facts support me (since you’re big on facts, albeit selectively) — is that Cabrera put up much bigger numbers down the stretch.

KO great article as usual, you really show why you are this generations Murrow, Sorry again that Current abused and unjustily fired you but I know that you will going on to bigger and better things. Keep being yourself and you will always have a fan in me and always be perment on my ipod,ipad and life, and always will follow and be loyal. Love you faults and all.

I didn’t know Murrow was a liar.

Jack
KO is not a lier and neither is Murrow, you do not like KO because people like Limbuagh and others cannot have thier feet held to the fire. Do not give me hate websites and hate shows like Opie and Anothlny that have zero clue what happened to KO has a child. KO is this generations Murrow and always will be, because Jack he does something that you and the other trolls that come on here have never heard of, it called speaking truth to power, it called standing up to hate speech and do not give me that made up garbage that he does not because that jack has been debunked over and over again by people that you listen to that defend those lies and hate speech. Murrow would have done what he did and that is go after corporate greed. Keep showing Jake that you have no idea who Murrow was just like you have no idea who KO is. Your post shows why KO is this generations Murrow and why you would be lying and bashing Murrow if he were around because you Jack have no idea what real honesty and journalism are. You really make me love and respect KO more and more with your BS embarrssing posts that show that you would rather bash than listen to the truth. KO keep being yourself and you will always have a fan in me. Jack keep showing that you have no diea what lies are, you defend them when you bash KO because you would rather bash the joruanlist than let him do his job, and you show that with every made post that has zero truth about who KO is and again who Murrow is. Jack I did not know that you were a troll that does not know what journalism and what tolerance is which KO also represents. You really love to embarass yourself with these posts that have no sense and no hoensty either. Again you make me love and respect KO more and more and show why he will always be this generations Murrow, and sorry KO that you got treated like crap at Current, and will not be happy if you do not get the justice that you deserve for being unjustily fired from Current. Did not know that Jack was a troll that had no idea what honesty and journalism are and love to show that neither KO nor Murrow can lie. KO keep being yourself and you will have a life time fan in me, love you faults and all.

Yes, Trout is waaaay better in the field. And Jon Jones is a better MMA fighter than Kevin James. But I think Cabrera deserves points for playing a position he does not want to play! Think about that.

It’s not like the Tigers are trying to hide him in left field. No, the dude is standing on the Hot Corner, with one hundred chances per night of ending up with a hole in his throat like one of those anti-smoking PSAs.

I had to look all this stuff up. Shame on you! So I’m thinking it’s sounding like the response is more objective rather than subjective or vice versa….whichever? Confusing but then again you’re better at numbers. Can we thank Bill James or Earnshaw Cook for this sabermeterics thingy? All I know can fit into a thimble for a very tiny person but I enjoy reading your opinions. Baseball will forever keep us all young at heart and that’s the beauty of it. N’est pas? LyK

Where exactly is WAR in the box score?

And how many games did Trout win for Anaheim in April?

Thanks, Keith, for the return! Wow! Thanks for the gift of baseball and your expertise. It has enriched my life for sure. I was watching Cabrera in the dugout on the news last night and just thinking, “What a gift!” He is amazing. And you are as well. Enjoy each day. Hugs. ;)

WAR– what is it good for? Absolutely nothing. Cab– MVP.

It ain’t nothin’ but a heartbreaker (Mike Trout)
Friend only to the undertaker (Bud Selig)

Acknowledging that this is contrary to your reasoning on Hernandez’s Cy Young award doesn’t make it any less laughable. Are you now saying that Hernandez’s Cy Young may have been justified?

Any other year I’d consider giving Trout the nod-129 runs scored in just 139 games played bolsters any offense- BUT a) the Tigers won their division while the Angels couldn’t even finish ahead of the A’s and b) the Triple Crown. Even if Cabrera played for the Indians I’d give him the nod. Ironic given that Trout is a fleet footed lead-off man vs power hitting Cabrera (not that Trout’s 30 hrs are chop liver) but Trout fanned 40 times more than Cabrera despite 75 less at-bats.

Interesting bit of trivia: When Frank Robinson won the Triple Crown, it was the only time he led the league in any of the TP categories.

Mr. Olbermann this was a great piece breaking down the numbers. Thanks for writing it. Also, I know this is a weird request, but I know of no other way to contact you. Can you unblock me at Twitter @QuadCityPat. I have been an avid supporter of you and your work and really have no idea why I’m blocked. Thanks for your time

If we are going to talk WAR then it should be noted that even though Triple Crown numbers were all we had for Yaz, he did lead the league in WAR with a 12 and played great defence in the shadow of the Green Monster.

I don’t trust statistics with the word “Replacement” in them; it smacks too much of scab labor. “See, if we replaced this guy with another guy who wasn’t as expensive, we could save some money . . .” I appreciate the main point of your argument, Keith, that HR, RBI and AVG used to be all we had, but if you take OPS, what happens? Cabrera wins. And if we take “Led team to the playoffs” Cabrera wins. Really, isn’t that what “most valuable” is about, finally? The Angels couldn’t get to the playoffs, so how valuable was he? Not as valuable as Torii Hunter was in September, that’s for sure. And he struck out in a huge at-bat against Texas when it mattered last week. He’ll have his time. Right now I’d like to see Cabrera have a monster series . . . and the A’s win.

(Keith — when will you be back on TV?)

Olbermann was beaten up by girls in school. And that’s not a joke. He clearly hasn’t moved past his childhood, because he now pretends to be the righteous champion of the underprivileged. He’s self-loathing and insecure, and overcompensates with a persona that comes across as Edward R. Murrow as played by Ted Baxter. He’s a cauldron of impotent rage.

TubularMonkey1 year ago 24

Wow Jim
Do you love ti make up crap about KO, do you realize taht Opie and Anothony do not tell the truth about KO, I want those talk hosts to explain how KO got beat up by girls at school, did they go to school with him, sorry but that is not a true story, that is BS story that trolls like you believe because you cannot handle that KO does something that you have never heard and that is to tell truth to power. KO is this generations Murrow and Anothony and Opie show why, all the care about is putting up made up stories that you do not have to be a fan just someone with a brain to know is not true. Wow I keep making me love and respect KO mor and more. Also the guy with inpotent rage Jim that is not KO that is a guy called Oreilly who is also know as the Ted Bexter. You need to learn what passion and honesty is which KO have and what lies and made up childhood stories that Opie and Anothony have.

“He made seven million a year?! Oh, wow, was he overpaid!”

Wow so I should be angry at KO because he made over a million, do Jim and Anothny and Opie, realize that people that listen to KO, do not care how much he makes, the reason why we like him is because he speaks out against corporation coruption, that is what you guys do not get. People like KO and us care crap about people getting rich, what we hate and what people like Anothny and Opie and LImgaugh and all the others that you put up here support. Do you love to lie about who KO is, Jim KO is this generations Murrow because he speaks out against people that are taking from the people they are called corporations. They are the ones JIm that need to regulated but which people that you listen to who would rather bash KO than listen to the truth are for. You trolls really show that you do not get it, people care crap that KO makes a million he deserves it and he amited that he overpaid, but he also goes after the real thives and that is corpote coporations. Keep making me love and respect KO more and more, with your made up lies about who KO is and why he this generations Murrow. YOu and Anthony and Opie and all the others would be bashing Murrow if he was alive that is how uncredblie and made up your posts are. You show just like those guys that you have no idea what real joruanlism which KO pratices is. KO I am again sorry that Current treated you like crap and that you get trolls like JIm that care nothing about honesty only about bashing guys that are more famous and wealthy then he is, not wanting to realize what you do and that is corporations are the emeny not people that become millionars honesty like you do. KO keep being yourself and you will always have a fan in me, love you faults and all, and will be pissed if you do not get the justice that you desever for being unjustily fired at Current, Jim thanks for putting up another show that loves to bash people like KO that speak truth to power. You show that you and Anthony and Opie are about honest and credible on KO has Madoff was to his clients, you show that when it comes to KO you and Anthony and OPie should not be listened to and that you need to retract all your made up posts just like Anothony and OPie need to retract thier shows and apologize to KO for lies and well know lies and debunked crap that they put out. Keep lying and putting up videos that are made up debunked crap about KO, all you show is why KO is this generations Murrow and that you would not know who Murrow is if he came up and bit you. You and Anthony and Opie just make me love and respect KO more with you debunked crap like getting beat up by girls, unless you and those guys lived with KO when he was growing up you do not get to say what happened to him as a child, I do not have to be a fan to know that those two guys are lying about who KO is, just like I know that your posts are bunch of BS that show how you would not know who KO was if be walked up to you. You really like those igonrant on who Murrow is and who KO is.

I wish that people would leave their politics off this site. Keith Olbermann is here to talk about baseball and so are we–and I say that as one who thinks he’s too conservative. Now, that said, I find it interesting that the baseball traditionalist is using the new-fangled stats, and it moves me off of my view that of course Cabrera should be MVP because he won the Triple Crown. Yet I also think that no one could or should say that Trout was robbed if Cabrera won it, any more than we could say that Cabrera was robbed if Trout won it.

So far so good in the last 48 hours, the baseball comments far outweigh everything and anything else, hooray!

Talking baseball! Kluszewski Campanella. Talking baseball…!

trust me, I love KO and I think that he has zero clue how to be a conservative, but I get angry at the trolls that come here and bash him, I prefectly happy with people that talk about baseball that is what we are here and disagree about KO. Again KO keep showing why you are this generations Murrow and why he will be around for years to come, sorry Current treated you like crap and why you will be around for years and years to come. I will be pissed if you do not get the justice that you so rightly deserve for being unjustily fired from there. You show why I am a lifelong fan of yours, keep being yourself and you will always have a fan in me, love you faults and all.

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“Everything is relative” — Ma & Pa Kettle

Gary
I have to say that I love your aviator
KO again all you every have to do for me is continue to be yourself, I love everything about you from your personality to your ego, again I sorry that Current treated you like crap and abused you the way that they did. Will not be happy if you do not get the justice that you deserve, also sorry that MSNBC mangement thinks that it can just re-write its history and not admit that you were the one that put them were they are today. You diffently deserve better. Keep being yourself and you will have a lifetme and loyal fan in me, love you faults and all.

What good is a great WAR if your team does not make the play offs? Seems like the Angels could have saved money with a triple A player.

THEEEEEEE

YANKEEEEEEES

WINNNNNN

THE YANKEES

WINNNNNNNNNNNN

Lets just say Trout defense makes up for the gap between him and Miggy. You could even say he is slightly more valuable if you think stolen bases are more important than batting in runners…

Further comparing the two… The Tigers don’t make the playoffs without MIggy. The Angels don’t make the playoffs without Trout… oh wait… the Angels didn’t make the playoffs with him either…

wow
You love to post videos that have no truth in them, Jack I have watched that video before and that video does not show Occupy as a Violent movement and it does not show it as a movement that does not exclude people, actually that video shows the opposite that it is in inclusive, so you are showing that you do not even watch, you again show that you have no idea what you post you so do not understand that anyone can post video’s on You tube so just posting something there does not show that subject that being posted is true, you really make me love and respect KO more and more with unintelligent and BS tweets, you show that you have no idea what honesty is, you cannot even tell a video that is showing how incolsive Occupy is. KO sorry again that you got absued at Current and will not be happy if you do not get the justice that you deserve for being unjustily fired from there. Keep being yourself and you will have a lifetime fan in me, love you faults and all. Jake loves to show why you will always be this generations Murrow.

“Who’s More Unprofessional: Keith Olbermann Or His Last Four Employers?

Keith Olbermann was just fired from Current TV — and we hear that chances of him actually showing up to a slated appearance with old Sports Center cohost Dan Patrick at a panel in New York City next Thursday are not much higher than the lottery odds. Guess Dan will have to do this one by himself. Not that he should be surprised, given Keith’s history of trouble with his networks.

If anything it’s comforting. Current is the fourth network to have a public, emotional break-up with Olbermann, and reading his statement alongside his former network’s is a reminder of of the unstoppable force-immovable object relationship between the World’s Most Impossible Man and the World’s Most Impossible Profession. Here are highlights from his biggest breakups.

ESPN:

Mike Soltys, ESPN Exec:

“He didn’t burn bridges there. He napalmed them.”

Suzy Kolber, anchor:

“I just felt that Keith was an unhappy person. He made a lot of people unhappy around him. I’m sure he made me unhappy.”

Olbermann, in “Those Guys Have All the Fun: Inside the World of ESPN”:

I hate to put this on the record, but I’m really annoyed that Suzy has portrayed herself as this sweet bystander victim all the time. I swear on my niece’s head that this is true. When those touch-and-go negotiations for her to stay in ’96 ended, we were all working in a trailer while they rebuilt the newsroom, and Dan I were even sharing a computer. And one day she comes in and tells everybody-and I mean every on-air guy on the network was in this double-wide-”I’m leaving for Fox. It’s been real.” And as soon as she was out the door everybody stood and applauded. McQuade came over to me and said “Well at least her time here produced something positive. You get her computer.

Fox Sports Net:

Rupert Murdoch:

“I fired him. He’s crazy.”

Olbermann, in “Those Guys Have All the Fun: Inside the World of ESPN”:

David Hill’s take on the history of Fox Sports Net is hilarious. He was intimately involved in hiring me for Fox Sports and Fox Sports Net. I met with him the first day I was on the lot in LA. And the idea that “our ratings dropped” because I made them look too much like ESPN is nonsensical. “Our ratings dropped” because when the genius behind the project, Tony Ball, suddenly left to return to England, Hill took over and saw the opportunity to instantly raise ratings by 10 or 20% by taking our show out of head-to-head timeslot competition with SportsCenter. None of the ESPN management had ever been in a serious competition before. They were winning 100 to 2 in the first quarter and all they could think of was “my God! They scored two points on us! Change everything! Kill everyone!” I got calls from all the key managers — all of them — looking for jobs at Fox. Norby included. Utter panic over the fact that we had succeeded in growing a dandelion — one dandelion — in their driveway. So Hill managed to give that entire psychological victory back. While putting on “Strongest Man” competitions against Dan in fact raise our ratings from lousy to 10% less lousy, what they signaled to ESPN was, we were no longer serious. And we weren’t helped by Chris Myers, who started going on the air with absolutely made-up “scoops” and started leaking to everybody he could about how mean I was to him.

Olbermann on “Countdown” last year:

“Instead of anchoring six days a week in the Los Angeles studio, they were going to have me anchor four days and then fly to and from different interviews, events, and promotions, etc. in other cities two different times per week. In short, they were threatening to work me into illness or into the hospital or both… They were blackmailing me about my health, and Fox blackmail works. And that’s the way it works. Lord only knows, if it works so well against someone with resources and a high profile like mine, how often was it used against lesser figures in the company?”

MSNBC:

Howard Kurtz’s “Keith Olbermann Quits Countdown”:

At a meeting with Olbermann’s representatives last September, NBC Chief Executive Jeff Zucker and NBC News President Steve Capus said that some of their client’s behavior was unacceptable and had to stop. Griffin said that Olbermann’s personal problems were affecting his work and he looked angrier on the air, eclipsing the smart and ironic anchor they had once loved.

In November, when Griffin suspended Olbermann indefinitely over the political donations, the two sides engaged in blistering negotiations over how long it would last. Olbermann’s manager, Price, warned Griffin that if the matter wasn’t resolved quickly, Olbermann would take his complaints public by accepting invitations from Good Morning America, David Letterman, and Larry King.

“If you go on GMA, I will fire Keith,” Griffin shot back.

From Olbermann’s final broadcast:

There were many occasions, particularly in the last two and a half years, where all that surrounded the show — but never the show itself — was just too much for me. But your support and loyalty — if I may use the word insistence — ultimately required that I keep going.

Current TV:

Brian Stelter’s “Olbermann in a Clash at New Job”:

Mr. Olbermann, who was hired last year to be the top star of the upstart liberal news source, had been on the job scarcely three months when trouble started. He declined Current’s requests to host special hours of election coverage, apparently out of frustration about technical difficulties that have plagued his 8 p.m. program, “Countdown.”

The channel decided to produce election shows without him. Mr. Olbermann, however, said he did not know that, and on Tuesday, the day of the Iowa caucus, the cold war of sorts reached a flash point. He held a staff meeting even though “Countdown” had been pre-empted.

Perceiving it to be an act of defiance, David Bohrman, Current’s president, wrote a memo to Mr. Olbermann’s staff telling them that the anchor had long ago given up the opportunity to anchor on election nights. “We assumed,” he wrote, that “Keith had communicated to you.”

Al Gore’s “Letter to Viewers”:

Current was also founded on the values of respect, openness, collegiality, and loyalty to our viewers. Unfortunately these values are no longer reflected in our relationship with Keith Olbermann and we have ended it.

Olbermann’s statement:

I’d like to apologize to my viewers and my staff for the failure of Current TV.

Editorially, Countdown had never been better. But for more than a year I have been imploring Al Gore and Joel Hyatt to resolve our issues internally, while I’ve been not publicizing my complaints, and keeping the show alive for the sake of its loyal viewers and even more loyal staff. Nevertheless, Mr. Gore and Mr. Hyatt, instead of abiding by their promises and obligations and investing in a quality news program, finally thought it was more economical to try to get out of my contract.

It goes almost without saying that the claims against me implied in Current’s statement are untrue and will be proved so in the legal actions I will be filing against them presently. To understand Mr. Hyatt’s “values of respect, openness, collegiality and loyalty,” I encourage you to read of a previous occasion Mr. Hyatt found himself in court for having unjustly fired an employee. That employee’s name was Clarence B. Cain.

http://nyti.ms/HueZsa

In due course, the truth of the ethics of Mr. Gore and Mr. Hyatt will come out. For now, it is important only to again acknowledge that joining them was a sincere and well-intentioned gesture on my part, but in retrospect a foolish one. That lack of judgment is mine and mine alone, and I apologize again for it.”

Jack
Keep showing that you would rather bash KO than listen to the truth, that he has never naplenmed a bridge and that he unemployable has always been debunked and always will be, I look at those articles and you have to live in fantasy world if you think that shows that KO is a jerk or that he unemployable, I already apologized for what happened with Suzie but people like you want to put that out because KO has to be a bad guy here is what KO did A long, long time ago, one of my bosses at ESPN told me that during times of contention, I always showed too much backbone.

Well, he was damned right.

A whining sacroiliac sent me to the chiropractor’s last week and the X-rays proved my old boss literally correct. I am part of that hidden minority, the spinal mutants, who have six lumbar vertebrae instead of the customary five. I do have too much backbone.

This was the final sign that it was time to do something that for months has been crystallizing out of the gauzy haze of the unconsciousness that surrounds us all: I need to apologize to ESPN.

This began to become evident weeks ago when the deputy mayor of Indianapolis attacked Chris Mortensen, one of my reportorial role models. I once watched Mort protect a source who not only publicly denied what he’d told Mort in private but also questioned his ethics. Just this month, Mort went on the air and criticized the thoroughness of his own reporting on a story. Mortensen is the gold standard, and this hack politician slashed him and said ESPN was “a sports channel first and a news organization fifth.” I was amazed to find my hackles rising and myself rushing to defend my old employers on my radio sportscast.

It all became remarkably clear after that. This isn’t about my skeletal freakiness, or Chris Mortensen, or even, particularly, the primary area of wounded feelings for my former bosses and colleagues, Mike Freeman’s book about the network. This isn’t even about specific events or people, although nearly everybody at ESPN merits an apology from me, and I give it willingly and with great sadness, but with some hope that it will explain if not erase my actions, and might even be of some inspiration to any who might be afflicted in the same curious way I’ve come to learn I am.

This is about not knowing why you do things — literally, not knowing for years and years — and then suddenly beginning to scratch the surface of understanding. That earlier imagery about the gauzy haze is almost factually precise: It feels as if I’ve been coming out of a huge fog bank.

Enough preamble. After five and a half years there, I left ESPN at the end of June 1997. My decision inspired a lot of head-scratching, everything from graffiti on a wall in a syndicated comic strip, to shouts of “traitor” from a viewer at a World Series game. There have been a lot of explanations conjectured, by myself and others, but heretofore I have never definitively stated why I left — in large part because until recently, I didn’t really know. In point of fact, I couldn’t handle the pressure of working in daily long-form television, and what was worse, I didn’t know I couldn’t handle it.

Not the broadcasts themselves, mind you — I’ve rarely had as much fun in life as I used to during those hours on the air with Dan Patrick. I’m talking about an inability to digest all that led up to those hours, about which I had no clue at all. And unless somebody at ESPN had the insight to look for a big-picture pattern, nobody else had any clue at all. I think some executives, most notably John Walsh, had a sense that something was wrong. But whatever any of them said about “insecurity” or “perfectionism,” I know I just took it as an attack and stiffened my extra-long spine.

On top of everything else about it that can destabilize the soul, television is fraught with a million commonplace things that can go wrong. A surprisingly large number of things can go wrong even when everybody involved is giving their all. It’s the nature of a medium so complex it would’ve made Rube Goldberg blanch.

But I didn’t see it that way.

I have lived much of my life assuming much of the responsibility around me and developing a dread of being blamed for things going wrong. Moreover, deep down inside I’ve always believed that everybody around me was qualified and competent, and I wasn’t, and that some day I’d be found out. If you think that way, when somebody messes up, you can’t imagine that it just “happened.” Since they’re so much better than you are, how could they not complete a task successfully? They have to be not trying hard enough — and when they don’t try and the show goes to hell, who gets blamed? You do.

In other words, you start thinking like George Steinbrenner, circa 1977.

Mix that in to the very public nature of the field, and especially the high-profile nature of a job like hosting “SportsCenter,” and you have a combustible combination.

The results can probably be summarized by this conversation I recall from the weeks after the infamous launch of ESPN2 in 1993. After three hours of live shots failing, news breaking, entire 20-minute segments of the show being swapped during commercial breaks, tapes physically falling apart, and production assistants wiping out as they ran through the snow to try to get us information, the producers, my co-host Suzy Kolber and I somehow managed to cover Michael Jordan’s first retirement professionally and entertainingly.

Afterwards, the coordinating producer, Norby Williamson, greeted us like the survivors of a World War I foxhole at Ypres. “Great job. Great show,” he said.

“The hell it was,” I said.

Wrong answer.

You suspend — no, let’s be exact about this, I suspended — the whole human part of the equation. It never occurred to me that most of the problems were the result of mere events. Even the chaos that surrounded the entire launch of the experimental show “SportsNight” was merely the inevitable result of the fact that it was experimental.

And it never, ever occurred to me that if it failed, I wouldn’t be found out, fired, banished, finished.

The oddest thing about all this, is that even when I left — and in six weeks I will have been gone longer than I was there — executives like Walsh and Howard Katz underscored that I was welcome to return at some distant future date, despite all the Sturm und Drang. And, man, I was usually producing both the Sturm and the Drang. Months later, Katz even approached me about contributing to ESPN Classic, shortly after the company had bought that network.

Of course, I could not know that the major bone of contention, the veritable sixth lumbar vertebra of contention, still awaited: Freeman’s book. I should herein point out that none of this should reflect on Mike: He did an exhaustively thorough job, and more to this point, he didn’t misquote me, not once, nor did he use anything I said out of context. Nor did he cajole or sweet-talk me into discussing topics I didn’t want to discuss. Also, this isn’t some kind of loudspeaker confession from George Orwell’s “1984.” I’m not going to renounce most of my criticisms of the place. I did not consort with Goldstein. I don’t think I was wrong on the issues — I think my methodology was wrong. Outstandingly wrong.

My answers to Freeman constituted the ultimate act of somebody who lived in terror of being blamed. After I left for NBC in 1997, I was unprepared for a question I would literally hear daily — on the street, at events, even on the air on MSNBC: “Why’d you leave ‘SportsCenter’?” If you make a decision in your life, even one as eminently logical and self-improving as “Why’d you start washing your hair every day?” and you start getting questioned hourly about it, you’re going to start second-guessing yourself. I eventually got up to about my millionth guess.

So. The logic was impeccable. To answer that question, I couldn’t take the blame (responsibility) for the disaster (career growth) about which I was being persecuted (sympathetically asked about). Why did I leave “SportsCenter”? Obviously, because it was a medieval torture chamber (fairly typical television workplace providing a high level of ego gratification and creative freedom).

There’s a lot in Freeman’s book that I regret. I won’t inundate you with details, but a few require specificity. Referring to ESPN’s executives, I told Freeman that “other than Steve Anderson, I don’t think any of them are any good.” Well, that was ridiculous then and it is ridiculous now. Without even judging how good they were, just to keep a monolith like ESPN on the air every day requires as many good executives as they have at NORAD.

As suggested earlier, I don’t regret my stances on the work environment there, but to say that some actions management took were merely “covering their ass legally” was to subtract the humanity from the equation. It never dawned on me that some of these guys had been thrown in at the deep end of the pool, or would have to expose, prosecute and fire friends and colleagues who themselves had done things that until a decade before had been standard operating procedure at every corporation in America.

I now read with horror of my ESPN2 co-host, Ms. Kolber, sequestering herself in the women’s bathroom and weeping over how I treated her. She told Freeman that as things deteriorated, I wouldn’t talk to her. She’s wrong: I couldn’t talk to her. I pumped up some small-scale complaints into a scenario in which she was at fault for everything ESPN2 hadn’t become. I wasn’t completely obtuse back then, and if anything would have cut through my neuroses, it would’ve been a colleague’s tears. If I had known, I think I could’ve jumped over the fence I’d built around myself and said what the inner guy always knew: No TV show is worth crying over. Suzy: I’m sorry.

There are lots of little gratuitous shots in there that also reflect an insensibility to parts of reality. I get queasy at all of them, but one stands out as representative. Freeman accurately quotes me as complaining about how a labor-intensive participatory field piece I did in 1996 about what the first-base coach does and says during a game, got little airtime. A year later, ESPN ran a similar piece in which the coaches of the Anaheim Angels wore microphones. I complained to the relevant coordinating producer, Jeff Schneider, and he replied that the new ESPN-Disney-Angels connection explained why one piece ran and the other didn’t. It is almost certain that Schneider was joking, or tweaking me, or, most probably, protecting me from a fact I could never have admitted to myself or have survived hearing from him or anybody else: My coaching piece just wasn’t that good.

Several ESPN folks suggested to Freeman that I was trying deliberately to violate the rules — appearing on other networks and writing for publications without notifying them just to tweak management. That was almost right on the money. But it wasn’t as simple as merely trying to annoy ESPN or John Walsh or whoever else. It was me trying to give myself an excuse to get out from under the pressure of working in an environment of my own creation in which I daily expected the blame ax to fall. It was prepackaged sour grapes.

Oddly, I did figure some of this out then, which is why, even after we’d finalized my departure I went back and proposed to them that I do one show a week. That really was instinct cutting through all of these neuroses. That was, should’ve been, and remains my ideal TV schedule: one or two days a week, and the other five or six to remember that I’m not going to be blamed for everything by anybody — even myself.

So, I’m sorry. It should have been done differently. It wasn’t. Then again, I’m only finding out now about that extra vertebra and the extra steps I have to take to learn how to be, well, flexible. Wow so Suzie is beating up on a guy that was able to man up and apologize for what happened wow that shows that she would not know what character is just like you, also Suzie is not great herself on stuff like working well as you and others want people to believe because jack does not want to hear that KO ego is not why he not on Current, here is what KO said about SuzieBelow is an excerpt from Those Guys Have All The Fun: Inside The World of ESPN, which is finally in paperback so those readers anxious for more Bristol back-biting don’t have to carry around the cumbersome hardcover. The new version includes more bitchy anecdotes from Bill Simmons, further details about Tony Kornheiser’s on-air insults about Hannah Storm, and, of course, more from Keith Olbermann, who maintains that he didn’t treat his one-time co-anchor Suzy Kolber as horribly as most people think.

Keith Olbermann:

I hate to put this on the record, but I’m really annoyed that Suzy has portrayed herself as this sweet bystander victim all the time. I swear on my niece’s head that this is true. When those touch-and-go negotiations for her to stay in ’96 ended, we were all working in a trailer while they rebuilt the newsroom, and Dan I were even sharing a computer. And one day she comes in and tells everybody—and I mean every on-air guy on the network was in this double-wide—”I’m leaving for Fox. It’s been real.” And as soon as she was out the door everybody stood and applauded. McQuade came over to me and said “Well at least her time here produced something positive. You get her computer.

Two-and-a-half years later, maybe the day after I got to Fox, now she’s leaving there to go back to Bristol and she sweeps through the news bullpen to say goodbye and damned but it doesn’t happen again. She says her farewells and as soon as she’s out of earshot, the row of writers stands up and starts applauding and cheering.

I liked Suzy then and I like her now but she wasn’t just sinned against.”

“Suzy’s statement seven or eight years later that I had caused her to go into the bathroom and cry really affected me. I mean, it provoked genuine introspection and sincere guilt. But, honestly, that was the first I’d ever heard of it. I mean, we shared an office desk for six months and she never even hinted that however I had treated her it was a problem.

In fact I had been proactive in trying to help her, because Norby and Mike Bogad were really pushing her around during the earliest rehearsals. My agent, and a very good woman friend of mine at ESPN, came to me and said “you know, you can be a little intimidating sometimes, you should take Suzy out to dinner and be her friend.” That floored me, but I took their word for it, and I tried to remind her that while she was the newcomer, they had bent over backward to try to get her, and the very biggest wigs at Cap Cities had personally pushed for her, and while it made sense for me to lead things off because I was by that time established with the brand, she should not just sit there if they shunted her off to the side or sent her on these punishing trips to Edmonton to interview Doug Flutie or whatever. I said I’d back her up completely. That night, we parted closer than ever. And the next day she was in Norby’s office demanding that she get the lead story instead of me! Wow hearing that just makes me love and show that KO gets along with others just fine.
Murdouch, this is guy who would not know what truth is if you put in his face, Jack do you realize that Murdouch has no idea what honesty is, he also like Hyatt thinks that it okay to blackmail his employees like he did KO hereOn Countdown tonight Keith Olbermann used a Special Comment to detail how Rupert Murdoch blackmailed him when he worked for Fox Sports.

Here is the video:

After retelling the story of how he got fired from Fox Sports for reporting that Rupert was looking to sell the LA Dodgers, Olbermann got to the new details,

The second half of my story I have never told publicly before. It’s time. In June of 2000 after a year and a half of doing two one hour cable shows a night for Murdoch and baseball from 7 AM to 5 PM on Saturdays, I got sick. My doctor told me that if I didn’t among other things slow down at work; he would be treating me for heart disease within the decade. I took him very seriously. I told my employers about cutting back maybe from the six days to 5, and offered to give back to Fox some of my salary in the process because my health was at risk maybe even my heart.
They immediately took me off the air. They refused to put me back on until I had gotten a letter from my doctor guaranteeing them that I was well enough to work. By itself that was hardly an evil thing to do. In fact, I recognized it as a prudent business decision, and I complied because I didn’t know what they intended to do with it. They blackmailed me with it.
Wow a guy who thinks like Hyatt and Brohem thinks that someone should work while they are sick that shows that Murdouch is a boss no one even KO should work for, also jack, KO got fired from there for telling the truth, KO found out that Murdouch was selling the Dogers he even went to someone asking if Mourdouch would be okay with the story, which they said yes and than he was fired when Murdouch, because Jack honesty is not allowed when Murdouch organization is in it, I should listen to a guy that is underinvestigation for warptapping when it comes to how KO is, you really love to show me that KO is easy to work with and that you like Current have zero clue what being hard to work for. MSNBC let’s see they thought that it was okay for Scaurbough to donate also and if KO had not gotten caught would have let Scraubough get away with donating so you show again how hypocritical MSNBC is on that here is MSNBC suspended host Keith Olbermann today, following revelations that he made campaign contributions to three Democrats in the elections — a violation of MSNBC policy.

But a search of OpenSecrets.org reveals that MSNBC host Joe Scarborough and MSNBC contributor Pat Buchanan have also made contributions to political campaigns. Here’s what we found…

In March 2006, Scarborough, who hosts the show Morning Joe, gave $4200 to Derrick Kitts (R-OR). And, as the Daily Kos points out, a month later Kitts was a guest on Scarborough’s show.

Between 2005-2008, Pat Buchanan made five contributions to Republican candidates, totaling $2250.

Chris Hayes, the Washington editor for The Nation, is a frequent contributor to MSNBC shows, and often fills in for Rachel Maddow on her show. The Upshot reports that he gave $250 to Alabama Democratic candidate Josh Segall this year before he signed his contract with MSNBC.

NBC News producer Mary Murray, who also does reporting for NBC News and MSNBC, gave $250 to John Waltz (D-KY) this year. In 2008 she gave the same amount to Barack Obama’s presidential campaign.

Update: New York Times reporter Brian Stelter Tweeted that Hayes, in fact, would not be subbing for Olberman after all.

Later Update: Alex Pareene at Salon notes that CNBC anchor Larry Kudlow donated to former Congressman Christopher Shays (R-CT) in 2009 — one of a number of donations Kudlow made to Republican candidates over the years.

Even later update: Chris Hayes Tweeted that it was his decision to decline to host “Countdown” tonight, and that his donations were all made prior to his MSNBC contract. Also MSNBC has had others like Geogary who spoke at a republican event, hereThe National Federation of Independent Business (NFIB), which calls itself “the voice of small business,” is one of the Republican party’s strongest allies. The group spent over $1 million on outside ads in the 2010 campaign — all of it backing Republican House and Senate candidates (and, Bloomberg News reported last month, “another $1.5 million that it kept hidden and said was exempt” from disclosure requirements). The group is the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit against the Obamacare law and bankrolled state governments’ challenges to the law. The NFIB has also taken stances against allowing the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases, opposing regulations on businesses, and supporting curtailing union rights.
Given the group’s obvious Republican alliance, it comes as little surprise that the NFIB’s three-day 2012 Small Business Summit, which begins Monday, will feature headliners Karl Rove and House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH).
But the first name and photo on the invitation for the $150-per-person event — Tuesday’s “keynote address” speaker — is NBC’s Meet the Press host David Gregory. He is marketed by NBC as an anchor and “trusted journalist.”

The Society of Professional Journalists’ Code of Ethics states:
Journalists should:
— Avoid conflicts of interest, real or perceived.
— Remain free of associations and activities that may compromise integrity or damage credibility.
— Refuse gifts, favors, fees, free travel and special treatment, and shun secondary employment, political involvement, public office and service in community organizations if they compromise journalistic integrity.
Regardless of whether Gregory is being paid for this event and of what he says in his keynote, allowing the NFIB to raise money for its political mission using his name, reputation, and celebrity appears to be at odds with journalistic ethics.
Gregory did not to respond to a ThinkProgress request for comment. So your article just shows what a hypocrite krutz, where does krutz get on Georgary case for speaking at a even or when ED was suppose to speak at a Wisconsin event, so Krutz has no creadiblity when it comes to KO. Also all those stories have been disaproved, KO never had people put notes outside his box that came from suggestions jack and a disgulted employer made the other stuff up, also dealing with personal problems like his parents death that shows that KO bad and hard to work with, also dude that shows that MSNBC was not watching Countdown because he was not getting angry after his parents died, that shows that MSNBC wants to lie, mangement wants to re-write the history of who put them on the map, that how BS, also this came from gawker I suppose to believe gossip site on how KO cannot get work, maybe you should read Carter when it comes to this and than tell me that KO is unemployableGiven Keith Olbermann’s abrupt removal at Current and his typically temperate response — “Current’s statement are untrue and will be proved so in the legal actions I will be filing against them presently” — it seems as if his next stop will be a puppet show shot from a basement somewhere. He’ll never work in this town, or any other, again, right?

Wrong. Many of his past employers will testify to his unmanageability and unpleasantness, but the fact of the matter is that somewhere, sometime, after some kind of cooling-off period, Mr. Olbermann will be coming to a television near you.

That has less to do with the greater fool theory, which suggests that there will always be someone naïve enough to think that they can accomplish what others have not — that is, make Mr. Olbermann behave like a professional when he is not on the air. (Remember that former Vice President Al Gore and Joel Hyatt — two of the principals at Current — blew through many stop signs to get to Mr. Olbermann. They made very hopeful statements when the deal was cut, which were followed by very frustrated noises thereafter.)

No, the mistake that the executives at Current made was to think that by giving Mr. Olbermann a stake in the enterprise and a title of chief news officer, he would forgo the drama that has characterized his stints at CNN, Fox, ESPN and MSNBC. After all, you can’t rail against the Man when you are the Man.

But Mr. Olbermann is talent, and a big baby to boot — any reporter who has covered him could tell you all about that — so the idea that he would default to the good of the many over the needs of the one is just not in his nature. The title was used as leverage, nothing more, when Mr. Olbermann became dissatisfied and starting communicating with his employers through lawyer letters months ago. Mr. Olbermann is a ferocious fan of team sports, but that’s not how he plays the game.

He is the equivalent of a supremely talented left-handed pitcher with a strong arm — and some obvious control issues — that can give whatever team hires him a lot of quality innings. On the bench and off the field? He will complain about his coach, his teammates, the quality of the field and the stadium lights.

He did not solve the miserable ratings math at Current — as my colleague Brian Stelter pointed out, in his 40 weeks on Current TV, he had an average of 177,000 viewers at 8 p.m., a shadow of his former incarnation at MSNBC where he drew a million-plus people a night.

That’s not all his fault. Anybody who has watched the Keith-less version of Current could understand why they wanted him so badly in the first place. Beset by technical problems that had Mr. Olbermann broadcasting his show with a black backdrop in a kind of hostage/protest motif, Current was not and is not ready for prime time.

The channel’s election coverage has been tendentious and painful to watch, and the depth of its bench can be measured by the fact that it is bringing aboard former Gov. Eliot L. Spitzer of New York to replace him. Current will have to do some renovating to make room for all of the baggage he brings with him, from both his scandal-ridden exit from the governorship and his ratings-challenged turn at CNN.

Which brings us back to Mr. Olbermann. Anchoring a show on television looks easy. Buy a nice suit, get a nice haircut and read the words on the prompter in the right order with some semblance of conviction. But it’s not. As cable stations proliferate, the desperate search for people who can credibly show up every night — or not, as Mr. Olbermann was frequently on strike at Current — and hold an audience’s attention will only become more acute. Mr. Olbermann has a terrible relationship with actual humans, but a very good relationship with the camera.

When I was working on a magazine piece about Mr. Olbermann, we went to a Yankees game and he explained the camera voodoo:

“Mechanically, if you look very carefully in a camera, it has a series of reflections and dimensions to it, you can look past that,” he said. He holds up his hands in the shape of a box. “Here’s the camera, here’s the front of the camera, here’s the lens of the camera, but if you look deeply enough, you can see the inner rings at the far end of the lens and maybe a glimmer of light very deep in the distance. You can always see something that might be an inch or two below the surface. Whenever I can, I try to focus there, not on the prompter or the front of the lens.”
Maybe that’s overexplaining something that is actually innate, but history has shown that even though Mr. Olbermann’s employers do not like him, the camera, and the people at the other end, like him just fine. As Jonathan Wald, the producer for Piers Morgan put it, somewhat more industrially, in a tweet on Saturday night, “Stars star and producers produce.”

And that means he will find work. He is a free agent in a business that is remarkably akin to pro sports, full of divas who are great at hitting the curve or making impossible catches, but baffled by the rest of life. Think Terrell (“I love me some me”) Owens. Or Randy Moss. Or Babe Ruth. Or Ted Williams. Jerks, louts and narcissists, all tolerated because within the four corners of the diamond, the football field and, yes, the television studio, they can do what others cannot.

So some executives will eventually plug their noses and write a check and a contract that they hope will contain Mr. Olbermann’s less attractive aspects. He and they will say that this time it will be different, and it may be. Just don’t expect him to be part of the team.
Wow jack so even Carr who would agree with you about KO’s behavoir says that KO is employable and will come back, that is how made up that statement is. You really love to show me why I love KO and why his personality had zero to do with what happened at Current, that article even tells about Hyatt and AIDS aka firing someone with AIDS and you want me to believe KO’s the bad guy. Keep making me love and respect KO more and more and show that all you wnat to do is bash him and put up gossip articles that can easily get refuted, you also do not get what I do about KO is that he a professional and someone that is not afraid to stand up for what he believes in which is what mangement hates about him and why he has a hard time with them, it what people love, keep lying about KO that is all you know how to do, you keep showing why I am a fan and always will be. Jack you also show why KO got unjustily fired from Current you have no evidence that KO is unemployable, only a gossip site by mangement that for the first two aka MSNBC and Fox are hypocritical and includes Current, and one with someone who has just as bad a reputation as KO suppose to have, and who wants to still get on KO’s case about something that he apologized for showing that she has zero crediblity and sounds like it just a revenge post. KO keep being yourself again will be pissed if you do not get the justice for being unjusticly fired from Current. Jack why does KO been in this industry for 33 years if he so unemployable that is how BS your argument is. KO keep being yourself and showing off your great personality and showing why KO is this generations Murrow and why he will be around for years to come, keep being yourself KO and you will always have a fan in me, again Current needs to stop lying and tell people the truth that your personality and ego is not why you got fired and that you work fine with others, Hyatt needs to explain why he and Brohem thinks it okay to make thier broadcating stars to work with a throat infection, that jack shows that Current never cared about KO, just like MSNBC who wants to re-write history and is okay with people that speak at partisain events and other employers doanting but KO the bad guy, that he unbelieveable MSNBC is on that topic. All that shows jack is why I do not watch Current and MSNBC and how dishonest those mangements are. You really love to show that KO works fine with others. KO keep being yourself and you will always be perment on my wall, ipod and ipad and life and why you got unjustily fired from Current. jack you just make me love and respect KO more and more with your BS crap about who he is. Jack thier is no and you just showed once again there is no evidence that KO personality was what got him fired. Keep lying about KO and showing that KO has zero clue how to lie and that you Jack have zero clue how to tell the truth about KO and his past employment. KO love you faults and all.

December 5, 2011

Current TV Fires Staffers as Olbermann Pockets Millions!

When it comes to the Great Divide between the 1% and the 99%, there’s no doubt where Al Gore, impresario of Current TV, and his partner in crime Keith Olbermann stand. The New York Times reports that Current is dumping practically the entire staff of Vanguard. This documentary series, once regarded as the flagship program of Gore’s media machine, was described by ‘Chief News Officer’ Olbermann in the most glowing terms. Bathtub Boy noted that Vanguard was “a skeleton — in the most complimentary sense — of an outstanding international news operation”.

Yeah, well, so much for that. The lucky Vanguard staffers are being reassigned; the rest are getting their walking papers. They’re out the door, and here’s why:

A person who worked on “Vanguard” for years said that Current, while profitable, seemed unable to afford the documentary unit and the new shows. “If you’re committed to boots on the ground journalism, there are just fixed costs you can’t get around,” he said. “And Current isn’t exactly flush.”

Really? Whatever could Current be spending money on that it can’t afford to keep a few lower-level staffers on their payroll? We know the answer to that, don’t we?

Keith Olbermann is not in the witness protection program, but he might as well be. His show on Al Gore’s Current TV (America’s least watched network) has lost nearly a third of its viewers in four months. Pretty impressive result for $10 million a year. That’s just his salary.

Even back then, media writers knew that the facade at Current TV couldn’t sustain Oralmann’s King Midas salary. It was inevitable that all those lower level jobs would be jettisoned in order to make it possible to pay Olby and keep his bathtub full:

Al Gore, Current’s chairman and co-founder, is also whistling a symphony past this particular graveyard. He told Crain’s New York: “We’re going to be creating a lot of jobs for people who are not afraid to speak truth to power.” We can only hope this isn’t the former vice president’s solution to the unemployment problem.
However, some people are getting good jobs at good wages. In addition to recently hiring Bohrmann, former head of CNN’s Washington bureau, it has also picked up Shelley Lewis as executive vice president of programming. Lewis’ previous experience includes co-creating the Air America Radio network. Well, that certainly turned out well. The network’s other new employees include former MSNBC host Cenk Uygur and former Michigan governor Jennifer Granholm.

Where Current gets the money to pay these people or even stay in business is anybody’s guess.

So Edward R Olbermann and his 1% pals settle into their cushy leather chairs in their Current tv penthouses, while the people who do the real labor of producing documentaries–the hard working 99%–get shown the door. All by command of Current’s Chief News Officer: the infamous, deplorable one himself.

Keith Olbermann, thy name is hypocrisy!

Wow jack do you love to make crap up. Here is what Brain Stiller said about this story and KO’s salary has nothing to do with why it was cut, As Current TV turns itself into a channel for liberal talk, it is turning away from its original source for news, a critically acclaimed documentary unit called “Vanguard.”

In what some called a cost-cutting move, the channel last week dismissed most of the roughly 10 “Vanguard” employees. Some were offered other jobs. The channel will continue to produce “Vanguard” documentaries, but with freelancers.

David Bohrman, the president of Current TV, said in a statement that production was not being canceled. “But given the network’s new focus on political news and analysis, we have chosen to change the present in house production model for ‘Vanguard.’ ”

In an interview on Sunday, he called “Vanguard” “a great brand and a great franchise” that needed to be modernized.

In a nod to Current’s small audience, the six-year-old “Vanguard” was promoted as “the best documentary series you’ve never seen.” But it was praised by reviewers and award panels for long-form investigative journalism. In 2009, two reporters on assignment for the series, were detained in North Korea.

One of the first original series on Current, “Vanguard” was described as important even after Current hired Keith Olbermann, the former MSNBC anchor, in February in an effort to be a destination for political news and commentary. In March, he called “Vanguard” a “skeleton — in the most complimentary sense — of an outstanding international news operation.”

The “Vanguard” staff sensed the changes afoot — “The Young Turks,” a second show from a liberal point of view, will start on Monday, and a third in January — and tackled topics like fear of Muslims and income inequality that were in line with the interests of the new hosts.

The hourlong documentaries were given prime 9 p.m. slots after “Countdown With Keith Olbermann.” But a person who worked on “Vanguard” for years said that Current, while profitable, seemed unable to afford the documentary unit and the new shows. “If you’re committed to boots on the ground journalism, there are just fixed costs you can’t get around,” he said. “And Current isn’t exactly flush.”

He and others spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid upsetting past and potential employers.

Christof Putzel and Adam Yamaguchi will remain correspondents for the program. Mr. Bohrman said they would cover the 2012 presidential campaign among other subjects. “The only thing I’d like to do is make sure the topics are relevant to Americans,” he said. “That doesn’t preclude doing some things overseas.” Wow they cut this program because they were going with a different format and also they saved some people that is shows that KO is the bad guy, no it does not. Also the article you got that from is a site that unlike KO has no idea about honesty, they edited the article that Stiller wrote like they edit KO’s videos, because all they care about his lying about what KO’s says and bash him, Current never meationed KO’s salary when it came to Vangarud. They got rid of it because they were changing the line up to what they have now. It had nothing to do with salary. Wow you again show that KO not you likes truth and why Current unjustily fired. You show again why Olbermann watch is not a site to be listened to when it comes to KO, bceause KO is honest and that site has zero clue what honesty is, they love to write and edit KO’s stuff to thier liking which to make KO bad, because Fox news and others cannot be exposed for who they are and that are hateful liers. So thanks for making me love and resepect KO more by showing that you love gossip sites and hate sites to get your source, you really love to show why KO is and always will be this generations Murrow, and that you would not know what honesty and truth are. Your two posts just show why KO got unjustily fired at Current and that KO is for the 99%. Wow you really show that you love to bash and make crap up about KO, showing why I will always be a KO fan. You show that KO has a great personality and making me love and respect him more. Keep showing why Current has no case and that you love to believe gossip sites and hatesites and show taht you have zero clue what being honesty is. Also KO against corporations, so getting a million dollar salary is not showing that he a hypocrite, that shows that you Jack do not know what KO and Occupy are upset about. We care crap about people like KO being part of the 1%, what we care about is corporate courption, which KO speaks out against and he wanted Vangaurd to continue. Keep lying and making me more and more of a KO fan and more and more pissed about KO getting unjustily fired from Current and why he can never burn his last bridge.

I do Agree BA is a bad stat

May 29, 2008

Deadbeat Olbermann Fails to Pay New York Taxes, State Issues Warrant

New York State has issued a tax warrant against Keith Olbermann for failure to pay taxes on his humbly named personal corporation, Olbermann Broadcasting Empire, Inc. Olbermann is listed in legal records as the President of Olbermann Broadcasting Empire, Inc.

A call to the Albany County Clerk’s Office in upstate New York confirmed that the warrant is still outstanding and that Olbermann has still failed to pay his back taxes. State records show that Olbermann’s company failed to pay $2,269.50 in state taxes. A judgement was entered against Olbermann last summer (Docket Date: 8/21/2007), just weeks before Olbermann closed on a a luxurious $4.2 mm condo at Trump Palace, at 200 East 69th Street.

Keith Olbermann joins fellow comedian Al Franken on the list of prominent liberals who love to raise YOUR taxes but do everything in the power to avoid paying their own. Franken, running for the Democratic nomination for Senate in Minnesota was nailed two months ago for failing to pay his taxes. That report let to further investigations which turned up numerous examples of Franken skipping out on tax bills across 19 states for an amount totaling over $70,000. Franken was also fined $25,000 for failure to pay into state Workers Compensation fund. Minnesota Democrats Exposed has all the goods on Franken here.

NOTE TO READERS: The Franken case initially involved one tax lien in one state but quickly mushroomed to cover 19 states. Any help we can get in searching local tax warrant databases in other states is appreciated. Send along any other tax liens against Olbermann or his front companies and we will add them here.

UPDATE: Looks like we may have some more tax problems for Olbermann to report on tomorrow. We’ve got some leads but need to confirm with two state tax agencies.

Reader Tim reminds us that earlier this month Keith was defending fellow left-wing comedian Al Franken (by attacking Bill O’Reilly…a twofer):

Admonishing Bill, Olby said “if you say Franken owes 70,000 dollars in back taxes, you’re lying. Franken paid the taxes. In fact, he overpaid the taxes. He just didn’t pay them to the correct states. A traveling performer, like a comedian or lecturer or ball player, has to pay income tax everywhere he has a gig or game and Franken’s accountant misled him on that. So he paid the taxes, but he paid them to Minnesota, and now he’s paying them again to the other states. And you’re a cheesy liar, Bill.”

Except that Franken kept changing his story and also ended up getting slapped with a $25,000 fine for failing to pay into the workman’s comp fund (irony for the friend of the working man, right?). Whatever excuse Keith wants to make for Franken, Keith’s tax warrant is STILL outstanding as of this moment and Keith is not a performer or ball player. So what’s your excuse Keith? Did your accountant “mislead” you?

Mike
KO never mislead me that is pure BS and you know it. Once again you put up crap from olberamnn watch, which again shows not to be true. KO has paid his taxes, again Mike you seem to not get into your head that Olbermann watch which you get your info from is hate site that has never told the truth about KO, here is someone that easily debunked this crap of a story that Olbermann watch was trying to sell,Checked out the HuffPo tonight. Turns out they too have a story on this ridiculous “Keith owes back taxes” story. You can tell the Olbermann Watch operatives have been reading, because they are posting more lies about Tax Scofflaw Keith in the comments. To wit:

While MSNBC flacks spin Page Six with their non-denial denials, Olbermann Watch continues to unearth more outstanding judgements against Olbermann for delinquent taxes.

Olbermann Watch has now confirmed that in 2003 the New York City Finance Department socked Keith’s “Empire” with a $46,055 judgement for failure to pay taxes to New York City. The judgement, since vacated, was filed on June 30, 2003.

This latest tax problem, the fourth to surface in as many days, shows Keith struggling to pay his taxes on time in either New York State, New York City or California for five of the past nine years: 2000, 2001, 2003, 2007 and 2008.

Hmm. Wolfie, you’re a lawyer. Do you think you could explain to Bob Cox and his Cox-Suckers what “vacated judgment” means?

Now get this, in a separate comment:

A search of records in New York State turned up another Judgement against Keith Olbermann – this one for Keith personally not his “Empire” shell corporation). The Judgement was filed on 7/27/2000 for $21,565.

California records show yet another judgement – this one for a whopping $77,425 – which was filed on 9/21/2001. I guess Keith’s professed patriotic fervor in the wake of 9/11 had cooled by the time his tax bill was due. This one was filed in Los Angeles County. Records indicate that Keith was finally got around to resolving the matter four months later.

Just a minute, folks. Let’s take a look at that timeline. 9/11 happened on–well, 9/11–but on 9/21, Keith gets a lien filed against him for California tax, and this is supposed to mean “Keith’s professed patriotic fervor in the wake of 9/11 had cooled by the time his tax bill was due”? Um, guys, Keith’s 2001 tax bill wasn’t due until April 15, 2002–same as everyone else’s. If the state of California thought he owed them back taxes on September 21, 2001, his non-payment of them up to that point couldn’t have had ANYTHING to do with his feelings after 9/11–they would have been his 2000 California tax bill, due April 15, 2001. DUH. Kinda hard to see how his feelings about paying his 2000 California taxes could possibly be affected by 9/11.

But, anyway, what they’re saying is, he paid up, four months after the lien. Ohh, the pain, the shame! Keith was late paying his taxes!!!! The horror! The horror!!!! Why, I’ll bet the state didn’t even assess him any PENALTIES for it!!!!

All together Keith’s tax warrants and judgements now exceed $100,000

Uh, guys…how do you figure that?? They only way I can figure is if you added:

–the $46,055 Keith never had to pay at all because THE JUDGMENT AGAINST HIM WAS VACATED;
–the $21,565 you say he got a judgment for in 2000 (which, for all we know, he PAID)
–the $77,425 California said he owed them (which, you acknowledge, he PAID).

So, how does that add up to more than $100 grand in unpaid taxes? IT DOESN’T!!!!

Ah, but of course, you never said it did, did it? You just said “Keith’s tax warrants and judgements now exceed $100,000.” But even THAT is wrong, if you throw out the judgment that was vacated!

So, at worst, what we would have here is $98,990 in judgments, but hey, let’s add the $2,000 plus from last year to make it more than $100K. Well…you indicate that he PAID the $77,425, and MSNBC says he paid the $2K. So…are you saying he didn’t pay the $21K? I’m thinking he did, but holy cow, even if he didn’t…you are still WAY OFF BASE.

Gosh, guys, go back to math class! Take Accounting 101!

Bob Cox and the Cox-Suckers…for all time, the WORST! PEOPLE! IN THE WORLD!!!!!!! wow Mike you not me are the one that is being mislead, you are believeing a site that does not know what extensions mean, and what paying them late means. KO paid his taxes, and sorry Franklin has paid them too, do you realize that laws about taxes and how to get them done are different. Please keep showing me Mike that you are the one that is being mislead by a website that has never told anything truthful about KO, again Mike they made this story up, like they do with all stories on KO. You really show why KO Mike is this generations Murrow and why he going to be around years to come and and make me love and respect him. Sorry that is another made up and debunked lie that Olbermann watch put out. Keep making up crap and showing that Mike is the one that is being mislead.

May 30, 2008

Olbermann Tax Woes Mount, Extends to California, total now over $100,000

Looks likes the New York State Tax Warrant we reported on yesterday is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.

A search of records in New York State turned up another Judgement against Keith Olbermann – this one for Keith personally not his “Empire” shell corporation). The Judgement was filed on 7/27/2000 for $21,565.

California records show yet another judgement – this one for a whopping $77,425 – which was filed on 9/21/2001. I guess Keith’s professed patriotic fervor in the wake of 9/11 had cooled by the time his tax bill was due. This one was filed in Los Angeles County. Records indicate that Keith was finally got around to resolving the matter four months later.

All together Keith’s tax warrants and judgements now exceed $100,000.

Mike
KO never mislead me that is pure BS and you know it. Once again you put up crap from olberamnn watch, which again shows not to be true. KO has paid his taxes, again Mike you seem to not get into your head that Olbermann watch which you get your info from is hate site that has never told the truth about KO, here is someone that easily debunked this crap of a story that Olbermann watch was trying to sell,Checked out the HuffPo tonight. Turns out they too have a story on this ridiculous “Keith owes back taxes” story. You can tell the Olbermann Watch operatives have been reading, because they are posting more lies about Tax Scofflaw Keith in the comments. To wit:
While MSNBC flacks spin Page Six with their non-denial denials, Olbermann Watch continues to unearth more outstanding judgements against Olbermann for delinquent taxes.
Olbermann Watch has now confirmed that in 2003 the New York City Finance Department socked Keith’s “Empire” with a $46,055 judgement for failure to pay taxes to New York City. The judgement, since vacated, was filed on June 30, 2003.
This latest tax problem, the fourth to surface in as many days, shows Keith struggling to pay his taxes on time in either New York State, New York City or California for five of the past nine years: 2000, 2001, 2003, 2007 and 2008.
Hmm. Wolfie, you’re a lawyer. Do you think you could explain to Bob Cox and his Cox-Suckers what “vacated judgment” means?
Now get this, in a separate comment:
A search of records in New York State turned up another Judgement against Keith Olbermann – this one for Keith personally not his “Empire” shell corporation). The Judgement was filed on 7/27/2000 for $21,565.
California records show yet another judgement – this one for a whopping $77,425 – which was filed on 9/21/2001. I guess Keith’s professed patriotic fervor in the wake of 9/11 had cooled by the time his tax bill was due. This one was filed in Los Angeles County. Records indicate that Keith was finally got around to resolving the matter four months later.
Just a minute, folks. Let’s take a look at that timeline. 9/11 happened on–well, 9/11–but on 9/21, Keith gets a lien filed against him for California tax, and this is supposed to mean “Keith’s professed patriotic fervor in the wake of 9/11 had cooled by the time his tax bill was due”? Um, guys, Keith’s 2001 tax bill wasn’t due until April 15, 2002–same as everyone else’s. If the state of California thought he owed them back taxes on September 21, 2001, his non-payment of them up to that point couldn’t have had ANYTHING to do with his feelings after 9/11–they would have been his 2000 California tax bill, due April 15, 2001. DUH. Kinda hard to see how his feelings about paying his 2000 California taxes could possibly be affected by 9/11.
But, anyway, what they’re saying is, he paid up, four months after the lien. Ohh, the pain, the shame! Keith was late paying his taxes!!!! The horror! The horror!!!! Why, I’ll bet the state didn’t even assess him any PENALTIES for it!!!!
All together Keith’s tax warrants and judgements now exceed $100,000
Uh, guys…how do you figure that?? They only way I can figure is if you added:
–the $46,055 Keith never had to pay at all because THE JUDGMENT AGAINST HIM WAS VACATED;
–the $21,565 you say he got a judgment for in 2000 (which, for all we know, he PAID)
–the $77,425 California said he owed them (which, you acknowledge, he PAID).
So, how does that add up to more than $100 grand in unpaid taxes? IT DOESN’T!!!!
Ah, but of course, you never said it did, did it? You just said “Keith’s tax warrants and judgements now exceed $100,000.” But even THAT is wrong, if you throw out the judgment that was vacated!
So, at worst, what we would have here is $98,990 in judgments, but hey, let’s add the $2,000 plus from last year to make it more than $100K. Well…you indicate that he PAID the $77,425, and MSNBC says he paid the $2K. So…are you saying he didn’t pay the $21K? I’m thinking he did, but holy cow, even if he didn’t…you are still WAY OFF BASE.
Gosh, guys, go back to math class! Take Accounting 101!
Bob Cox and the Cox-Suckers…for all time, the WORST! PEOPLE! IN THE WORLD!!!!!!! KO taxes which were all paid never exceed 100,000 Mike that again was made up by Olbermann watch, Mike you keep showing that you are the one that can easily be mislead and are mislead, you show that you believe stories that do not even make sense, so he got vacated which means the court says that he owed no taxes, he paid one late, wow people Mike do that all the time, my dad’s account so I know, and he went and got judgements on the others, but still paid, so again how is Olbermann watch making KO look bad and showing that he not paying his taxes, that right they show that he pays his taxes and that he looks great and that they do not know what they are talking about, and again this story got debunked. Mike I live in the real world and I know that I have and never will be mislead by KO, I do not listen to sites that protect people that have been known to lie and also do not get what raicst qutos are, nachos on Superbowel is not racist people have nachos and gracmole and they are tex mex not mexican. That is how BS and misleading olbermann watch is, you again Mike are showing why KO will always be this generations Murrow. Sorry but you put up another non-sense debunk story showing how mislead and igorant you are when it comes to KO. Mike never put lying sites and debunked stories that just show how easily you get mislead and that Mike cannot tell truth if it walked up and bit him and how again igorant he is on who KO is, and just make me love and respect him more and more.

By Olby Sucks on May 29, 2008 3:48 PM
Can you imagine how orange olby would get if O’Reilly didn’t pay his taxes and had a warrant issued for him?
Would the drooler get another tingle up his leg?
I have a feeling this won’t get a mention anywhere, but, here.

By Philly on May 29, 2008 4:34 PM
LOL. Deadbeat moonbats. Add another to the list.

By Tony on May 29, 2008 4:39 PM
Typical idiot. So interested in what everone else (Fox, Mcain, Oreilly, etc.) and he is the law beaker.

By Philly on May 29, 2008 5:02 PM
SURRENDER OLBY!

By CountDung on May 29, 2008 5:37 PM
Another domino falls.

By dcmeyer on May 29, 2008 7:27 PM
As Olby loves to say, “RESIGN!”
(HE CAN’T RESIGN DCMEYER, HE GOT FIRED. AGAIN.)

By The Factor on May 29, 2008 7:32 PM
So Oralmann is a tax cheat. LOL Typical fascist liberal scum bag. Olbermann has no problem with the bloated Federal government stealing everyone else’s money except his. It is funny that Olbermann has a shell corporation to hide his money from taxation called Olbermann Broadcasting Enterprises. Franken had the same scam going. What a joke. We can only pray that Olbermann is forced to do the perp walk out of 30 rock and is stuck in a cell next to Wesley Snipes. Hopefully the only network shown in that prison will be Fox News.

By Katy Turic on May 29, 2008 7:38 PM
Stuart Smalley won’t pay his tax
Now it’s Keith that taxpayer lax
Tax warrants outstanding
Two deadbeats banding
Tax Court vs. A Couple of Hacks

By Philly on May 29, 2008 7:42 PM
dcmeyer, you are correct. Olby the hypocrite needs to RESIGN. He is the idiot-in-chief at MSNBC, which is saying a lot.
This calls for a viral video and music mashup featuring Orangemann bellowing “RESIGN” at himself over a background of catchy electronic beats.

By Sefton on May 29, 2008 8:31 PM
I find it ironic that a guy who rails against the evils of American imperialism and corporations is the president of his own corporate empire.

By Philly on May 29, 2008 8:35 PM
Didn’t Orangemann listen to Miserable Marxist Michelle Obama when she implored an adoring crowd not to work for corporate America? Olby, you are slipping.
Today I have read a lot of blog posts about Obama’s Marxist and Socialist party ties. Very scary.

By Quads on May 29, 2008 8:39 PM
Looks like an oversight. Chump Change for Olby, a juicy tidbit….we’re not talking Al Franken though.
However, if it was Bill-O, he would be WPITW.

By Philly on May 30, 2008 6:05 PM
LOL. Great gumshoe work, Bob. RESIGN OLBY, you deadbeat loser. If we could get video of Olby running like a scared little girl away from his inquisitor, that would make my week. Stupid hypocritical libs. They want to spend your money on welfare entitlements, not their own. Olby and his tax-cheating ilk love to tell us all how to live.

By Philly on May 30, 2008 6:38 PM
David Gregory and The Drooler must be laughing their heads off over Olby’s tax woes. Maybe The Drooler feels a tingle running up his leg a la Obama.

By Katy Turic on May 31, 2008 1:02 AM
Keith Olbermahn won’t pay his share
Evidently, he doesn’t care
Just like Al Franken
Tax money they’re bankin’
Hypocritical tax-cheating pair

Oo
Mike again this story is not true and again exlpain how this got easily debunked, here is what happenedChecked out the HuffPo tonight. Turns out they too have a story on this ridiculous “Keith owes back taxes” story. You can tell the Olbermann Watch operatives have been reading, because they are posting more lies about Tax Scofflaw Keith in the comments. To wit:

While MSNBC flacks spin Page Six with their non-denial denials, Olbermann Watch continues to unearth more outstanding judgements against Olbermann for delinquent taxes.

Olbermann Watch has now confirmed that in 2003 the New York City Finance Department socked Keith’s “Empire” with a $46,055 judgement for failure to pay taxes to New York City. The judgement, since vacated, was filed on June 30, 2003.

This latest tax problem, the fourth to surface in as many days, shows Keith struggling to pay his taxes on time in either New York State, New York City or California for five of the past nine years: 2000, 2001, 2003, 2007 and 2008.

Hmm. Wolfie, you’re a lawyer. Do you think you could explain to Bob Cox and his Cox-Suckers what “vacated judgment” means?

Now get this, in a separate comment:

A search of records in New York State turned up another Judgement against Keith Olbermann – this one for Keith personally not his “Empire” shell corporation). The Judgement was filed on 7/27/2000 for $21,565.

California records show yet another judgement – this one for a whopping $77,425 – which was filed on 9/21/2001. I guess Keith’s professed patriotic fervor in the wake of 9/11 had cooled by the time his tax bill was due. This one was filed in Los Angeles County. Records indicate that Keith was finally got around to resolving the matter four months later.

Just a minute, folks. Let’s take a look at that timeline. 9/11 happened on–well, 9/11–but on 9/21, Keith gets a lien filed against him for California tax, and this is supposed to mean “Keith’s professed patriotic fervor in the wake of 9/11 had cooled by the time his tax bill was due”? Um, guys, Keith’s 2001 tax bill wasn’t due until April 15, 2002–same as everyone else’s. If the state of California thought he owed them back taxes on September 21, 2001, his non-payment of them up to that point couldn’t have had ANYTHING to do with his feelings after 9/11–they would have been his 2000 California tax bill, due April 15, 2001. DUH. Kinda hard to see how his feelings about paying his 2000 California taxes could possibly be affected by 9/11.

But, anyway, what they’re saying is, he paid up, four months after the lien. Ohh, the pain, the shame! Keith was late paying his taxes!!!! The horror! The horror!!!! Why, I’ll bet the state didn’t even assess him any PENALTIES for it!!!!

All together Keith’s tax warrants and judgements now exceed $100,000

Uh, guys…how do you figure that?? They only way I can figure is if you added:

–the $46,055 Keith never had to pay at all because THE JUDGMENT AGAINST HIM WAS VACATED;
–the $21,565 you say he got a judgment for in 2000 (which, for all we know, he PAID)
–the $77,425 California said he owed them (which, you acknowledge, he PAID).

So, how does that add up to more than $100 grand in unpaid taxes? IT DOESN’T!!!!

Ah, but of course, you never said it did, did it? You just said “Keith’s tax warrants and judgements now exceed $100,000.” But even THAT is wrong, if you throw out the judgment that was vacated!

So, at worst, what we would have here is $98,990 in judgments, but hey, let’s add the $2,000 plus from last year to make it more than $100K. Well…you indicate that he PAID the $77,425, and MSNBC says he paid the $2K. So…are you saying he didn’t pay the $21K? I’m thinking he did, but holy cow, even if he didn’t…you are still WAY OFF BASE.

Gosh, guys, go back to math class! Take Accounting 101!

Bob Cox and the Cox-Suckers…for all time, the WORST! PEOPLE! IN THE WORLD!!!!!!! oo Olbermann Watch made up the 100,000. KO never owed that in back taxes. You along with Olbermann Watch do not know what vacated means and what late payment means. Again Mike Olbermann Watch is not a legit source on KO. MIke you have no shown one onece of evidence that KO is the pad guy, all you do is go to a site that has been know to lie about KO, and edit tapes to put words in KO’s mouth and edit articles and try to pass them off as news and only show that KO unlike you and Olbermann Watch knows how to tell the truth. Mike KO has paid his taxes, he not a deadbeat. Do you just love showing why KO will always be this generations Murrow, because that is all you are doing with your posting of made up Olberamnn Watch stoires that always get debunked. Sorry this story MIke is not true. Also Mike Franklin paid his taxes, havng problems about transfering taxes is not evidence Mike that he did not pay. You Mike just love to make me love and respect KO more and more. Another made up story showing that Mike is the one that loves to mislead by Olbermann watch. KO again keep being yourself and sorry you got unjustily fired at Current. Mike and others really show why you are this generations Murrow and why you will be around for years to come, and just show that you have a great personality and ego, love you faults and all. Keep being yourself and you will have a lifelong fan. Mike keep embarrassing yourself with made up stories that easily get debunked and show that KO has never and will never mislead me. I care crap Mike how long and what extensions he needed when paying that Mike is normal and people that are millionares deal with that stuff too, so sorry you have no evidence that KO does not pay his taxes. Just like you have no evidence that KO is hard to work for and he burned his last bridge. All you do Mike is make me more and more of a fan and show why he the only one that I will watch news for. Keep lying about KO mike and embarssing yourself with your ignorance about the man. Mike Olberamnn watch is lying hate site that shows that KO is this generations Murrow and make me love and respect him more. This story Mike is been made up and debunked, KO never owed 100,000 that been debunked over and over again. Keep lying that is all Mike knows how to do.

I don’t need proof that KO is hard to work with. All I have to do is quote EVERY. SINGLE. EMPLOYER. he has EVER. had who ALL. fired him.

Let see here , qutoing from empployers that have no idea what being strong minded and independent means, employers that think that they can re-write history, ones that have even hired them agaihnj. Mike those employers like you have no crediblity on KO, people that think it okay to fire people with AIDS and blackmail, like Hyatt those people show that they do not know what being a responsible moral manger is.Murdouch with being in a industry that you are suppose to tell the truth and does not, Mike that is not what being diffcult means. Also one of those people that you think tell the truth, one gt rid of his co-ceo, wow that guy sure knows how to play well wiith others. Mike keep showing me that KO plays fine with others and that Mike does not know what being indepenmdent minded and professional/prefectionist is and what getting along with others is. You really love to show how ingorant you are when it comes to KO and his personality. I do not listen to mangement/employers espically ones that do not keep prmoises on what being difficult means,people like those have no idea what being difficult looks like.

LA_screenwriter•9 months ago−
>> Gawker source: “This is about him creating a toxic, abusive, unsustainable work environment wherever he goes and taking his issues out on everyone around him… He needs to get help and learn to be a functioning adult, seriously.”

>> Keith Olbermann: “Gawker — you got pwned by a fake source.”

Pwned? Really? Let’s review the facts…

Works at Fox Sports…gets fired for being an arrogant and mean-spirited bastard to co-workers and for being an unprofessional douchebag.

Works at ESPN…gets fired for being an arrogant and mean-spirited bastard to co-workers and for being an unprofessional douchebag. No, wait — let’s be accurate. At ESPN, Olbermann was SUCH a major A-hole that the staff actually threw parties to celebrate his firing. In fact, he was so outright hated and despised by his fellow co-workers that, to this day, management has outright banned him from setting foot ever again on ESPN premises.

Works on NBC’s Sunday Night Football Pregame Show…gets fired for being an arrogant and mean-spirited bastard to co-workers and for being an unprofessional douchebag. Then again, helping to hasten his departure was the flood of mail from football fans across America that bombarded NBC which asked “Why is this smug bastard on the show? Get rid of him now or I’ll stop watching the pregame show and turn the channel till the game officially starts!”

Works at MSNBC and…wow, what a shock!…gets fired for being an arrogant and mean-spirited bastard to fellow co-workers and for being an unprofessional douchebag.

Which brings us to just last week when stories surfaced that Current TV has quickly realized that working with Olbermann will melt your brain because he’s an arrogant and mean-spirited bastard to co-workers and is an unprofessional douchebag.

So, why should anyone be surprised by that revelation? And from Olbermann’s point of view, why break the amazing professional streak he’s got going! (Insert mocking eye roll here…)

Let’s explore facts here, you Mike listen to gossip websites and say that those sites are telling the truth, that story that was put out 9n months ago was debunked here is what KO said has decided to take to his Twitter to complain about our post, to our infinite shock and surprise. And now (Update 2) he’s responded to our email. His response:

As I pointed out on twitter, your “source” is easily proved as a fake. The “anchor producer” never sat inside the studio and would not have been visible by any camera for any bump shot – but of course we also never did any bump shots.

The turnover figure is laughably wrong. Of the top 20 staffers on Countdown when we started in 2003, 17 were still there the day I left. In fact, three of them went with me to Current, and one of them who’d left MSNBC rejoined me over here (his fourth separate stint working with and for me) – all unlikely events if any of the stuff made up by your “source” was true.

As to the overall characterization of my conduct as an employer and employee I would point out again: prior to my Current gig I’ve had nine full time employers. Three have rehired me later in my career (CNN, MSNBC, ESPN) and three others asked me to come back but we couldn’t work it out.

I will admit the traumatic shopping story is very, very funny. But you’ve been seriously punked here, and here Seeing your reply online I’ll point out again there are simple black-and-white failures of the verisimilitude test. We didn’t do bump shots. The producer was never in the studio. There were also no post-its and there was never any “construction” I requested nor some sort of process by which you go to HR to complain about somebody’s perfume – I mean, in what office have you ever heard about that, which your “source” treats as if it were a daily event. At first I thought this person might have worked at MSNBC but not at Countdown. Rereading the piece I can see its far likelier he or she has never worked in an office of any kind. Seriously, guys, for the six years I was a local sportscaster in LA there was an LA Times columnist who kept printing these predictions of the imminence of my firing from his secret “source.” Only after all that time did one of the editors find out that the “source” was a sportscaster on a rival station who had a screw loose and an obsessive fear that I would eat into his ratings. You have a funny and occasionally informative site – don’t become a travesty. Also here is some that signs there name and is not a amous source and says thisI worked with him on Countdown at MSNBC for 2 ½ years, and the whole time he was on FNiA. I am an NBC employee, so I didn’t work FOR him, I work for NBC. Keith is mostly right, we had very little turnover in the studio over the years I was there. Same stage manager, same camera people. He had nothing do to with the stage crew. There was one incident where he asked a stagehand not be hired back, because the guy came into the small studio when Keith was on the air. That was a bit unfair, because the guy was sent in to look for something, by his boss, but that was it.

On FNiA, one night he accused a sound guy of stepping on his foot, and asked that he not be back. The guy swore it wasn’t him. He was given the next week off, with pay, and then was back on the show after that.

Keith’s a bit weird, but I like him. We sat on the pirate ship in Tampa, and watched the Super Bowl together the last time it was on NBC.

I don’t know how he was in the offices, just in the studio, but your informant isn’t being truthful.

Bob Friend

Studio 8G Head Electrician, NBC, so sorry there is no truth that KO is hard to work with, I do not listen to gossip sites, also this is a guy that does not understand bump shoots, here is what a fan and me who watch the show can say that a producer would not be able to use those shoots, here is what a fan saysWell, the ‘anonymous source’ mentions bump shots and claimed to be visible in them as an anchor producer. This is easily verifiable as false by watching Countdown and noticing the total lack of bump shots. Anyone passingly familiar with television and with Olbermann’s show knows that the ‘source’s claim to authenticity actually instantly reveals him as a liar.

So, it’s pretty obvious Olbermann’s right here.Well, the ‘anonymous source’ mentions bump shots and claimed to be visible in them as an anchor producer. This is easily verifiable as false by watching Countdown and noticing the total lack of bump shots. Anyone passingly familiar with television and with Olbermann’s show knows that the ‘source’s claim to authenticity actually instantly reveals him as a liar. So again you only show that KO is not hard to work with, I like you to explain why KO got alot of his former staff to go with him to Current, someone was with him since he was at ESPN, wow that guy is so hard to work with, why did a guy have a manger for how many years and only broke recently. KO had a producer that was with him until she got a promotion to cheif excutive, so she did not leave because Ko was bad, here is how Hyatt is Just the way you said — with, recall, the additional sudden departure of the manager with whom he was working most closely at Current, Mark Rosenthal (who had started Current on the right track, whereupon Hyatt reclaimed his CEO title from him, and he left, 7-29-11.) Keith reportedly was upset about the loss of Rosenthal from the organization. And then came Bohrman, 8-8-11.

Re saying too much or the wrong thing, I’ve been noticing On Twitter he’s giving brief answers to enquiries. It’s actually getting monotonous (a good thing in this instance!): “Keith, did you really do/say X,Y,Z?” –”No.” “Unnamed sources are saying this about you.”–”Don’t believe everything you hear.” Etc. He’s not initiating many digs at Current.
Wow again I suppose to believe him on working well with others, also here is something else I don’t buy for a minute that Keith’s colleagues feel anything like that about him. Most of them have been with him for years. Jean Sage had been his one and only agent for over a quarter of a century, until just recently when he hired that big outfit from LA.

He treats his staff like gold, giving them the credit for suggesting ideas that make the show successful and making him look good — everything you wish YOUR boss would do. The proof is all out there where everyone can see it.

The only people who seem to have a problem with Keith are M-A-N-A-G-E-R-S.

I’m buying what the CJR guy suspects — that all or most of that crap came from Griffin, to puff himself up. (Notice that Keith refers to “Kurtz’s hysteric source” — singular.) here is it about the staffers from MSNBC that are joining him NY Post has today deliberately run a false piece implying no MSNBC staffers have joined me on new show. 5 have plus 12 contributors – so far
1 hour ago via Twittelator

scifibird
Certified Fan

Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:47 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Again Mike this is from someone that cares crap about how well KO plays with others and cares crap about his personality and I can even see that you again show how ingorant you are when it comes to KO. KO gets along with his staff just fine, he was the one that gave bonuese and he even prasied them saying that it was the best about Countdown, amyous sources from gossip sites Mike again do not show that KO is hard to work well with others, that just shows that you cannot tell gossip from facts. So facts you put out a article from a gossip site by a ammouys source that does not get that producers are not in bump shots and I suppose to beleive that shows that Ko is bad, wow do you live in a fantasy world, MIke those are not facts those are lies and made up gossip, again you take lying sites and gossip sites are truthful, you show everyday why KO is this generations Murrow and why his personality has nothing to do with him being fired. Keep making me love and respect KO more and more with your BS posts. KO again I will be pissed if you do not get the justice you deserve for getting unjustily fired at Current, your personality is just fine, just like your ego, those are many reasons why I love you. Keep being yourself and you will always have a fan in me. Mike keep embarrassing yourself, again this story has already been debunked, you really do not know what facts are, a story that has been debunked Mike is not a story that has facts in it. Gawker is not a factual site, keep embarassing yourself and making me love and resepct KO more and more,and show why he will always be around. KO love you fautls and all, and again will be pissed if you do not get the justice that you deserve for being unjustily fired at Current.

Carlin was right. Baseball sucks.

Wow
A made up video on you tube that goes by the made up story that Gibbs put out you really are desperate.

LOL, no matter how Keith tries to spin this he comes out like an asshole. Again.

“Current has a ragtag operation” ITS A NEW TELEVISION STATION MORON! Of course its gonna be ragtag. It blows my mind that he had the possibility to be a part of something new from the start, help shape it to become the next great hope in american political news, but all he wanted was a paycheck and left when he didn’t feel “comfortable” enough.

Ex0dus1111 month ago

Wow
Again I suppose to believe a ogranization that claims they are liberal but thinks it okay for KO to do a commerical for ATT& that they were trying to get him to do, showing Mike that they are not corporate independent, and believe a quto confirming a negtvie story that they put out but which KO was slient about and defended Current in, as being sabatoged wow some great company, I do not listen to mangement mike that thinks that KO should work while he fighting a thorat infection, and with a guy that fired someoen with AIDS and even got rid of his co-ceo with no reason at all, you really do live in a fantasy world. again thier is no evidence that KO’s personality is why he not at Current, all you do is show that you think that imcomptent mangement need to be have by everyone. Keep lying and showing how ingoratn you are on KO, you really show that KO has no ego problem or personality problem.

“indepenmdent minded and professional”

LMFAO!

Yes and always will be. You Mike do not know what independent minded and professional mean. You think that a imconptent mangement that cared nothing about thier star, compalining that he was resting his voice a day before the primary that again shows KO personality has nothing to do with why he not at Current keep lying that is all you know how to do.

“I do not listen to mangement/employers.”

I might not if it was one, maybe two. But when EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYER you’ve EVER had (from the right side of the spectrum to the left) fires you and says that it’s for the EXACT SAME reasons….come on!

Wow
Mike thanks for showing me that you are beyond ingorant on KO’s job history. KO Mike was never fired from MSNBC or ESPN, also Mike KO was rehired by both of those companies, wow some bad personality there, Mike do you live in alternte reality, Mike you do not do last shows which KO did at both MSNBC and ESPN if you been fired. KO and even MSNBC have said that KO quit, he even got his salary that also Mike does not happen when you are fired. So no Mike he has no history of being fired by every employer that is pure BS and again has been debunked. He only be fired from Fox and that was for reporting the truth and Current and that was unjutily because they promised him the moon and never delivered. Also MIke he did not leave for the same reasons, you really hate listening to facts. ESPN he left because he and his bosses could not agree on a new contract, he wanted to go to New York, they wanted him to stay in Bristol, the reason he left the second time was that Patrick had quit ESPN and thier was nothing that he really did, so no ESPN had nothing to do with KO working well with others and personality and ego, so wrong there. MSNBC he left first time because he hated doing repaeted news of Monica Lewinsky, they sold him to Fox Sports, Fox is where he got blackmailed and fired for reporting the truth about Murdoch and the Dogers. So wrong there Mike, MSNBC a second time he left because a they scwered him over on campaign crap and he felt that they were taking creavity control away, again had nothing to do with personality and ego. So Mike you just again show how ingorant you are on KO. KO personlity again is not the reason he got fired at Current, again I care crap about that Mike, and I looked at the evidence thier is no proof Mike that KO broke the contract, none, zipo. Keep embarrassing yourself with made up debunked crap. I do not listen to people who are beyon igorant of KO’s job past espically ones that put out that debunked crap that KO was fired from MSNBC and ESPN. Mike I do not have to be a fan to tell you, people that are fired do not get rest of salary and last shows, KO got a salary from both the times that he worked at ESPN and MSNBC and did a last show that he thanked and said goodbye to people, that shows even to people that are not fans and people that unlike you know what commen sense is and uses it that KO was never fired from those networks. Mike sorry but you lie throught your teeth when you put out the debunked crap that KO’s ego and personality are bad they are not. Mike all you do is make me love and respect and show why he this generations Murrow. Sorry only got fired from Current and Fox, quit MSNBC and ESPN both times, that does not show that he hard to work with only that mangers have zero clue how to handle independent, prefetionist like him.


Sums up Bathtub Boy’s career nicely.

Olbermann is reading books to his lib audience lately. Haha maybe he knows they don’t know how to read.
Roachenator1 year ago 3

Olbermann is a tool and you would have to be an idiot to have not figured it out by now. GE owns 80% of MSNBC and has been making a fortune off the Obama administration. Olbermann is their hatchet man. Olbermann hates Fox because he was fired for unethical conduct. Beck took his place at Fox and Beck’s rating are extremely high. Olbermann is insane with jealousy. Research it yourself if you don’t believe me.
TripperLV 1 year ago

Wow
No wonder you love to lie about Olbermann, you believe anymous bloggers that just spourt crap off like you did, First this blogger like you is beyond igorant about KO’s job history, Mike KO never worked at FOx news, he worked at Fox sports, also he was fired by Fox sports in 2000. Countdown Mike did not start until 2003 when KO was hired back by MSNBC. Beck was not hired by Fox until 2008. So how could KO been fired by unethical condouct to be replaced by Beck if he did not work at Fox news and was already doing Countdown on MSNBC when Beck was hired by Fox. Also Fox does not know what unethical conduct Mike is, they and thier hosts show unethical conduct all the time, by lying to the public and using hate speech and shouting at guests, and campaigning for parties aka republicans. So that does not make since. Also KO and others on MSNBC have all called out Obama. So again you show how ingorant you are on KO and how you would not know facts if it bite you. Keep showing why KO is this generations Murrow and why he will be around for a long time, you keep proving me right that KO was unjustily fired at Current. I do not listen to people that take Fox news seriously, the manger at Fox was caught in a whole wire tape scandal, that is how unethical that news organization is.

I never said he worked at Fox News. I said Fox. I should have specified and said Fox Sports though.

You were FIRED! Get them to print you a T-shirt with the word ‘FIRED’ on it!

You act like a lying blogger and you get a T-shirt that says you are ingorant of KO career

Wow
Again MIke you do not seem to get that Olbermann Watch is a lying hate website that shows everyday why KO is this generations Murrow, they always show KO telling the truth, I have debunked two stories from that site already. keep showing how igorant you are on KO.

I wonder what Bathtub Boy’s response would have been if a Republican president had made a joke about the Special Olympics. -_-

Mika: “That was a good one!”

Again you use Olberamnn Watch and you want me to believe that KO is lying, Mike if it comes from that site, I know that KO is this generations Murrow and that he telling truth and that you are so igorant on who KO is that it is not even funny.

Sarah,

It is ‘employers’ not ‘empployers’;. As Bathtub Boy has told many people on Twitter, you have the ability to check spelling before pressing ‘Enter’ or clicking ‘Send’.

Wow
You care more about bashing people’s spelling than listening to the truth. no wonder you hate KO, keep making me love and respect him more and more.

Well, everyone is “literally, dreadfully sorry” that they ever hired you. And literally, totally joyful that they kicked you to the curb.

MIke
Olbermann watch loves to edit tapes, I have watched them before and they put words into KO’s mouth and make him say things that he never said. I saw that episode and I could see where Olbermann Watch edited to make KO say what they wanted him to say. MIke I do not listen to people that use Olbermann watch videos when it comes to KO. All they show is why KO is this generations Murrow and that they cannot tell what edit means and what actually converstation is. People like you just make me love and respect KO more and more.

Again, you show how ingorant you are when it comes to facts and Olbermann. Mike this site is not a legit site on KO, KO puts this site to shame when it comes to facts. Editing tapes Mike and putting words in KO’s mouth is not what joruanlism is and it not what facts look like. Also you show that you believe everything that you see on You tube. You really show why KO got unjustily fired and that you love to support lying, hate sites that protect liers and hate mongers like this site does. Mike you just again show that KO has no idea how to lie and hate and that his personality is not why he not at Curent. Mike you have not shown me anything that shows that KO personlity is why he not there. All you show and prove is that KO’s personality and ego have nothing to do with what happened there and that you are so igorant on who KO is it not even funny. Mike all you are doing is embarrassing yourself with your BS sites that have only shown why KO for generations to come will always be known as this generations Murrow and that KO has more honsety than this site would every know. Mike I do not listen to people that post videos from a site that has been know to edit tapes and whose stories about KO get debunked over and over again. This shows why KO has no idea again to lie and how tolerant he is. Keep making me love and respect KO and show why he got unjustily fired at Current. You really are pathic and show that you would not know who KO was even if he came up to you. This video shows that KO personality is just fine, and why as along as KO is himself he will always have a fan in me.

You weren’t the big dog. You didn’t decide to end anything.

You were FIRED! Get them to print you a T-shirt with the word ‘FIRED’ on it!

Mike
You need a T-shirt that says Mike is igorant about KO’s career and who KO is, He only been fired from two places. Mike you show that KO’s personality is not the cause for why he not at current. You show that you think that hypocritical bosses like he had at MSNBC, imcomptent bosses that get rid of co-ceo’s and than say that others cannot work well and think that it okay for people with AIDS to work and journalist and broadcasters should work with thorat infections before a primary, bosses that have safegraud on unethical meathods and fire people that tell the truth, you show that KO should have a T-shirt printed out saying that I know what having bad bosses are like. Keep making me love and respect KO more that is all you are doing with your embarrassing BS posts that are easily debunked. You really are igorant on KO’s career and what journalism and facts are and who KO is and always will be. You really are pathic. KO keep being yourself and sorry you got unjustily fired at CUrrent. Love you faults and all.

History, Jim, Sarah, and others that want to talk about things other than baseball, why don’t you take it to a blog of your own? You are ruining Baseball Nerd for those of us that want to read about baseball with Keith Olbermann’s perspective and intelligence. You can probably find other people to argue both sides of the KO question. I know people that will no longer come to this site because of all of the garbage that is posted. Keith started Baseball Nerd for baseball fans and himself. I just hope that he and/or MLB don’t decide to pull it. BTW–I’m an avid KO fan and I don’t think that this is the place to do diatribes FOR or AGAINST KO.

history
I prefectly happy to stop doing this, the only reason that I do, is that I hate when people think that it okay to bash KO because he speaks truth to power, if we could just keep trolls like Jim/ mike off this site, than I would just listen to what KO has to say and listen to what you have to say about stuff like this, but I will not have people bashing KO for the saking of bashing him, and putting crap like he broke the contract when that has been proven false because they want to lie. Other than that I prefectly happy and would hate for this site to go away, I enjoy his stoires and sorry that people are leaving because others like trolls think that it okay to bash KO, and people like me feel like they have to defend him. Trust me, I would love for this to stay baseball, but to me if trolls like JIm and Mike come along and put up made up crap than I going to auto-pliot and correct the record about the debunked crap that put up.

You have to be kidding me. Any stat (WAR) that gives more value to a Robinson Cano than a Justin Verlander has to be called into question by even the brightest baseball minds and statisticians. I mean, really. Cano? That’s enough for me. MIGGY is MVP.

Gee, several posts ago we were actually talking about the Triple Crown. Did you know that Yaz was not a unanimous winner of the MVP? That is, he did not receive all of the first place votes cast for the award. One other player got one other first place vote. Hints: He was a Minnesota Twin. He is believed to be the major leaguer who broke up more no-hitters than any other player. He definitely once played all nine positions in a major league game and unlike Dagoberto Campaneris, he finished the game. I give you: Cesar Tovar

Where was all this WAR discussion in previous years? That’s right, it didn’t exist. Why then, is it brought out in a year when a player wins the Triple Crown? Where was the importance of WAR in previous MVP races? Nowhere. WAR is a stupid statistic. Wins Against Replacement is meaningless. It’s a stat about how well a non existent replacement player would do if they stepped in for a player that exists if both players were able to play the entire season. It not only involves a player that doesn’t exist, it determines how well said non-existent player would play and then compares that against the player who exists and how well they would play. Let’s review, WAR attempts to put into numbers how many games a team would win if an actual player, using other statistics to guess how his season would pan out, played a full season versus how a minor league non existent player at the same positions, using other statistics to guess how the non existent player would pan out, would pan out.

How many non existent layers of BS does a statistic need before it can be laughed at? Hey, Trout has a better WAGRP than Miggy. Not familiar with WAGRP? It’s Wins Against Godzilla and Rue Paul. It’s calculated by using statistics to determine how many more wins against Godzilla and Rue Paul a player would receive if Rue Paul went through with the sex change, then injected steroids and topped it off by teaming up with Godzilla to try and replace the player in question. Why it’s been left out of the MVP discussion is beyond me. Trout has the better WAGRP than Miggy. Every heard of “WAFC”. It’s Wins Above Fat Chicks. It calculates how many more wins a player would have if they didn’t bang fatties throughout the year versus wins against a fake minor league player who stayed away from fat girls. Trout has a better WAFC than Miggy as well.

Here’s a better idea. Look at the stats that matter, such as batting average, RBI’s, HR’s, OBP, etc, take a look at what a team actually did with a player versus what they would have done if an actual player who exists with a record in either the majors or minors replaced the, and then ask who is the most valuable?

With Trout the Angels lose their division, just as they would have without him. So let’s put a stat with three unknowable things (how well a team would do with a non existent player over an existent player, how well the non existent player would play, and how well in that same situation said actual player would play) and put that out in front of just about every other measurable statistic other than stolen bases and use that instead..

What is WAR: “Wins Above Replacement, commonly known as WAR, is a non-standardized sabermetric baseball statistic that is used to show how many more wins a player would give a team as opposed to a “replacement level”, or minor league/bench player at that position. While WAR values are scaled equally for pitchers and hitters, the result is calculated differently for pitchers versus position players: position players are evaluated using statistics for fielding and hitting, while pitchers are evaluated using statistics related to the opposing batters’ hits, walks and strikeouts in Fangraph’s version and runs allowed per 9 innings with a team defense adjustment for Baseball Reference’s version.

There is no clearly established formula for WAR. Sites that provide the statistic, such as Baseball Prospectus, Fangraphs, and Baseball Reference, all calculate it differently; however, all of these sites calculate the value of WAR using these principles, and each site publicly acknowledges their methods for calculating their individual WAR values.”

OK, so let’s review. Cabrera is ahead in most actual statistics and there is no question the Tigers don’t make the playoffs without him where as the Angels don’t make the playoffs with Trout yet Trout is the MVP because he’s ahead in a statistic baseball experts can’t agree on that is derived from other statistics that attempts to put a number to how many games a team would or wouldn’t have won if a player was replaced by a non existent minor league player.

How desperate and reaching is that logic? If you can even call it logic. Which no thinking man can. WAR is a reach by Yankee fans who hate the Tigers for beating them three playoff series in a row to justify giving the MVP to a guy whose team didn’t make the playoffs with him over the first Triple Crown winner in decades who is in the same league as the other guy and whose team wouldn’t have made the playoffs without him.

Delusional doesn’t even begin to describe it.

Oh, KO, I fear you’ve gone over to the dark side. WAR? “Oh, pshaw! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!” Trout is ROY, Cabrera is MVP. With iffy pitching and a hit or miss offense during the regular season , Miggy was the one true constant. He carried the Tigers on his back most of the way. I feel like Charlie Brown telling Lucy, “Tell your statistics to shut up!”

KO has not gone to the darkside, I thought he was great on this stroy. KO keep being yourself and you will always have a fan in me. Love you and cannot wait to listen on Larry King.

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