Why Ryan Vogelsong Isn’t An All-Star

I rocketed past this point in this morning’s post because I thought it was so obvious. But the blowback on Twitter from some Giants fans was as if I had said Tim Lincecum didn’t belong on the NL All-Star team (he probably doesn’t, either, but there’s an argument to be made for previous performance counting).

“What about overcoming the odds?,” I was asked. “Wins are the poorest metric of a pitcher’s performance,” I was told. “Ever read Moneyball, idiot?,” I was hit with (yeah, and Moneyball has yet to produce a league champion, let alone a World Champion). When I argued that Vogelsong shouldn’t have even been considered because he had been tested so much less that he had not yet thrown enough innings to be considered for the ERA leadership, I was told that he would achieve that in his next start. The point was missed: in his “season” he is about where all the other starters were three weeks ago. If he were to give up five runs in five innings in his next start that sparkling ERA to which his supporters point, would balloon to 2.52. Remember that number.

But these guys love them some Ryan Vogelsong.

Trust me, I’ve got nothing against him. Great story, wonderful to see him make his way back (although I don’t recall many Giants fans saying the same thing about Colby Lewis during the World Series last year). He’s pitched well, although you could argue he’s been no better than the 14th or 15th top starter in the National League this season.

Actually, the explanation for the heading “Why Ryan Vogelsong Isn’t An All-Star” takes just two words: Tommy Hanson. Opponents are hitting .222 off Vogelsong. They are hitting .192 off Hanson. Vogelsong has averaged 7.26 strikeouts per nine innings. Hanson has averaged 9.62 of them. Vogelsong’s WHIP is 1.15. Hanson’s is 1.04. Vogelsong has won 6 of 13 starts. Hanson has won 10 of 16. In one category and one category alone does Vogelsong best the Braves’ righthander. His ERA is 2.13 and Hanson’s is 2.52 – exactly where Vogelsong could wind up with a five earnies in five innings performance next time out.

I think it’s open and shut right there. Individual metrics are all in Hanson’s favor, and the results – and some day we will shake off the Felix Hernandez foolishness of last year and recognize that, yes, a win or a loss is at least somewhat a starting pitcher’s responsibility – the results are decidedly in Hanson’s favor.

His interiors aren’t that impressive, but the idea that Kevin Correia has won 11 games with what is still a dicey Pirates’ line-up, is extraordinary. A 3.74 ERA and a .260 opponents’ BA give me the willies. But wins and losses do count for something.

But there are several other pitchers – and for our purposes here these are pitchers drawn only from the same Cinderella category to which Vogelsong belongs – whose statistics and results are slightly better or just slightly worse than Vogelsong’s. It’s easiest to look at them in column form:

PITCHER                           W-L        ERA       WHIP       OBA       SO/9

Ryan Vogelsong                 6-1         2.13         1.15          .222        7.26

Dillon Gee                           8-3        3.47         1.20         .222        6.29

Jeff Karstens                      7-4         2.55         1.07         .240        5.29

Ian Kennedy                       8-3        3.38         1.14         .236         7.58

Shawn Marcum                 7-3         3.32         1.15         .221          8.26

Jordan Zimmermann       5-7         2.82        1.10         .240         6.29

The crazy thing here, of course, is that our hypothetical five innings, five earned start for Vogelsong not only gives Hanson a shutout on the stat board, but it also turns the Giant into only a slightly shinier version of Jeff Karstens.

But I have heretofore left out the favorite meme of the Vogelsongians: he pitches for the Giants therefore he must be better because the Giants never score runs and every game is torture and blah blah blah, blah blah.


Correia and Gee, you can dismiss on this point. The Buccos are scoring Correia 7.17 runs per game; the Mets 6.94 for Gee. But all the other pitchers mentioned here are getting, at most, half a run more per outing than is Vogelsong, who gets 5.44 (Marcum 5.96, Kennedy 5.81, Hanson 5.70, Karstens 5.56 – and poor Jordan Zimmermann is struggling along at 4.80). If you want a macro view of where a 5.44 run support should get you, Cole Hamels was getting a 5.37 and Jair Jurrjens a 4.88 before their starts tonight. And somehow in the American League, Michael Pineda is doing what he’s doing with an RS of 4.42, Jered Weaver’s getting 4.04, and poor Dan Haren, 3.87. That’s lack of support.

This is a good point to mention my all-time favorite season of any pitcher in professional history. It’s amazingly instructive about the true value of interior statistics. At first blush, this looks like a pretty good year, in AA ball, for a 22-year old pitcher in 1967: 2.81 ERA (that’s two earned runs in each of his 20 starts, 1.39 WHIP (he was a little wild), 5.3 K/9, only 7 homers allowed all year. His name was Dick Such, his team was the 1967 York White Roses, they were no-hit four times that year, and Such finished the season 0-16. That’s right: no wins, 16 losses. Rather remarkably, he not only didn’t quit the sport, but made it to the majors as a pitcher and, for 19 years as a pitching coach (16-1/2 with the Twins).

There’s one more deeply disturbing aspect to Vogelsong’s selection by his manager Bruce Bochy that was explained on MLB Tonight by Jerry Manuel. To paraphrase him, he said he’d love to be getting the criticism Bochy is getting for picking three of his own starting pitchers, because it meant – no duh – that he had won the pennant last year instead of getting fired.

But more importantly, Manuel observed, it would mean that he had done right by “his guys” – that given the choice between a completely neutral decision about the eight best starters in the league this season, and not offending his own starters, he’d take not offending his own starters, every time.

Jerry’s never been given credit either for his acumen or his honesty. But his point is honest, and damning, and explains why now the time has come to take the defending pennant-winning manager (and all the managers) out of a decisive role in selecting All-Stars. If it has devolved into a popularity contest – as in, I want to stay popular with my own players – then it must be discontinued immediately. And the selection of Vogelsong over Hanson (to say nothing of the other Cinderellas) suggests it has.


  1. It's Barry

    It’s one thing for Bochy to reward a player who was on the Giants last year but… But Vogelsong wasn’t, so there is NO way he should have been selected!!! The All Star ballot doesn’t say whose had the best three months!! That’s why there should be NO bitch about Lincecum being an All Star this year!!! Once you’ve won the Cy Young award TWICE, you can be added to the All Star team no matter what the current season is like!!

    • Olivia

      Hey Keith…just how many Giants games have you seen this year? Have you even seen Vogelsong pitch this season? Your East Coast bias is showing once again.

      Until MLB changes the way the All-Star teams are selected, the manager of each team is going to make some of his picks based upon the players he knows ….his own team to fill in key positions.

      Having 8 Yankees in last year’s game pales in comparison to Bochy’s 4 choices. The Giants pitching staff is heads above most teams and I wouldn’t be surprised to see one or two more chosen to fill in spots along with Sandoval, who is currently experiencing a 17 game hitting streak after coming off the DL….a case could be made for him but I could see you using the same lame argument if Bochy chooses him.

      Try being a bit more consistent in making your cases.

  2. jacobslide

    One question I have is how can you congratulate Correia for winning 11 games with a dicey lineup supporting him, and then further on point out that Correia gets 7.17 runs per game of support? That 7.17 Correia gets is 8th in the NL in run support.

    Carlos Beltran getting the nob over Andrew McCutchen is far worse a decision by the giant dome of Bruce Bochy.

    I do miss you on Sportscenter though!

  3. Brandon Silverman

    The point is that Vogelsong is definitely deserving, he has saved the Giants this year when Zito went down, and yeah, he pitches for the Giants. Bochy’s the NL All Star coach, so why not bring him? It isn’t unprecedented. Or how easily do you forget that Girardi brought 8 Yankees with him last year? Bochy’s only taking 4 Giants. What about Sandoval’s snub in 2009? The All Star game is a popularity contest, and after that it’s a “who’s the most favorite of the coach’s?” Bochy wanted to make sure his World Champions were well represented, and Vogey has played better than any other Giants position player. Maybe if Posey doesn’t go down and Sandoval doesn’t miss a month and a half they go, and if that was the case, I’d be surprised if Bochy picked Vogey to go. The most players from any team on the NL is 4. I think that’s fair. 8 is ridiculous, yet I don’t recall you saying anything about Girardi last year.

    • Brewster Apollo

      “So this entire article is based on the hypothetical situation where Vogelsong gives up 5 runs in 5 innings…. So dumb.”

      Thank you!!! Can we then write an article where we extrapolate Vogelsong’s stats if his next start is a complete game shutout and discuss his all-star merits based on that? (1.93 ERA, BTW.)

      Keep crying Keith, your delicious, delicious tears! MMMMMM!

  4. BusterP

    So this entire article is based on the hypothetical situation where Vogelsong gives up 5 runs in 5 innings…. So dumb. Why not say: if Lincecum gives up 10 runs in his next start, he won’t deserve it. There is no reason to believe that he would give up 5 runs in 5 innings. His ERA is 2.13 for god sakes. He has a better chance of giving up 0 runs in 5 innings than 5.

    Why not just base it on stats as they actually are? Oh ya, because then there is no argument that Vogelsong doesn’t deserve it. Total Fail. You should try again and write why Vogelsong doesn’t deserve it based on his current stats. If you are going to extrapolate stats to the future, do them realistically, based on his current stats.. that would make sense, no?

  5. Jordan

    The rest of your points are reasonable, but seriously, a W doesn’t tell you anything about a pitcher. All Vogelsong’s record tells you is that he pitched in at least 7 games. The reason it is such a bad tool for evaluating a player is that a pitcher can only do so much in a game. He’s basically none of the offense, so right off the bat, half of the responsibility for a win is taken off of the pitcher. Add in the fact that fielding is at least 10% of the game, that the bullpen is another 10% and that random chance happens and it becomes pretty clear that a player’s W-L record is basically the worst player evaluation stat in pro-sports.
    Love the show, but you’re so wrong on this point that it almost hurts me.

  6. Mike Beusch

    I hope you bring up this argument every season, Keith. Because there are “home town” picks by All-Star managers every season. If not, please save us your anti-Giants bias — you’ll be cementing your reputation as a spoiled brat Yankees fan who pouts if his boys in pinstripes don’t win the World Series every year. The Giants won and Bruce Bochy has the right to do what every AS manager dies every year — deal with it.

    By the way, Giants fans DID praise Colby Lewis and his perseverance last season — he was very impressive against the Giants in the only game the Rangers won. Please stop making blanket generalizations in order to make a cheap (and inaccurate) point — it’s very Palin-esque.

  7. beearl

    “…the Felix Hernandez foolishness of last year”

    Et tu, Keith?

    Who do you believe deserved the AL Cy Young last year? Using the same five categories you use in your illustration, Felix bested David Price (2nd in the Cy Young voting) in ERA, OBA and WHIP. He bested CC (3rd) in ERA, OBA, WHIP and SO/9. He bested Lester (4th) in ERA, OBA and WHIP. He bested Weaver (5th) in OBA, WHIP, ERA and tied him with the same record. And he bested Buchholz (6th) in ERA, OBA, WHIP and SO/9. He also threw more innings and had more complete games than any of those guys.

    As for run support, most of those cats had 2 full runs or more in terms of support per game than King Felix had. Only Weaver’s Angels 3.8 per game came anywhere close to the 3.1 per game that Seattle gave him. You can see how it affected both of their records last year.

    I agree that wins are important. But so are the rest of a pitcher’s stats. Looking at everything (or even just those five that you used), King Felix was the best pitcher in the AL last year. Even if he only had 13 wins.

  8. Kim

    i reallly dont even wanna waste my time arguing because 1. your opinion doesnt matter because HE is an allstar and you can do or say NOTHING that will take that away from him but 2. he has been the MOST CONSISTENT starter since he has been called up. who cares if he was signed as a minor league contract or was in AAA

    and ps. bochy was MAD when charlie manuel SNUBBED pablo in ’09 for his own guy, so why should bochy think of other players when he believes his own players are equally as deserving.


  9. barbj2

    I’m a Giant fan but I do think they have some of the whiniest fans out there. I don’t think Ryan should have been selected. If he pitches well the rest of the year, he deserves a Comeback Player of the Year consideration. But the infatuation some of the fans have with him, fed in part by the infatuation that the local Giants’ beat writers have with him, I don’t get. He certainly didn’t pitch all that great his last two outings, even. His overall career as been mediocre to poor and he had a hot streak, similar to a light-hitting guy like Bucky Dent having a great postseason (a streak does not an All-Star make). I think some of the fans love Ryan because he’s not Barry Zito. Zito is despised, to an almost obsessive degree, by some Giants fans. They see Ryan as taking his job as a form of justice for the ridiculously huge longterm contract Zito was given. That give Vogey (as the beat writers love to call him) a patina he otherwise wouldn’t have.

    • walt kovacs

      its giants…not giant and you are no giants fan

      and he had some command issues in the last two starts…but he pitched better than cain and timmy just did

      but you wouldnt know that, cuz you arent a giants fan…

      • barbj2

        Walt, don’t tell me I’m not a Giant/Giants fan, because I”ve been one since childhood. Just because I pointed out that Ryan Vogelsong has not had a good overall career to back up being an All Star, that makes me not a fan? I’m glad he helped the team, but he doesn’t belong as an All Star this year. I know more about baseball than you do, so you can’t tell me anything. Look up the guy’s lifelong baseball stats.

    • walt kovacs

      you arent a giants fan…stop lying

      how many nights did you spend at the stick?

      and no giants fan would make the mistake of calling themselves a giant fan

      you are a dodgers fan…admit it

  10. barbj2

    Oh, and just to add, I think Ryan Vogelsong is a lovely guy and I’m happy he’s having this great year. But I don’t think any player should be selected to an All-Star team based on half a season and nothing else, no prior seasons to go on. His past is not star material, but he is almost like a rookie. I don’t think too many sensational rookies get selected to All-Star teams their first year, either. If Ryan continues to have a great year and comes back next season and has a great first half, it would be entirely appropriate to be selected to the All Star team. It just is premature to do it this year, IMO. I wish him all the luck for that to happen.

  11. arishianishi

    The whole All Star thing isn’t high on my list of important honors. It’s ok, but it’s just a corporate device to create interest, imho, like Dancing with the Stars. In that light, as long as the selections are in the top half of the group, I’m good to just have fun with it. Should be a joyful warm and fuzzy event and another day to party at the park. Cheers.

  12. barbj2

    Really. The lucky guys are the ones who aren’t picked, because they get a much-needed vacation in the middle of the season. Is Bochy really smart to have picked his guys in the middle of the season when they’ve shown some signs of fatigue, especially Lincecum? You’d think he’d want Tim well-rested for the 2nd half. Oh, well. It is about marketing. The fan vote is the most important because it gives the sponsors a chance to hammer home their advertising message when fans go on the website to vote for their favorite players. That’s what it’s all about. That, and helping to make money for the player’s pension fund.

  13. walt kovacs

    hey ko

    with fan balloting, the as game became a popularity contest…does jeter deserve to be in the as game this season? only if you think that as means entire career

    my god man, they start handing out ballots in may

    ko, did you, anyone at espn or any coach say boo when sandoval was snubbed in 09?
    vsong is a great story…and ya, he is a better story than colby lewis…who had success in japan
    vsong didnt…and he didnt have success when he returned with the phils and was released from their aaa club
    somehow, during the past offseason, in winter baseball, he put everything together…no one knows how…he doesnt even know how he did it
    and he turned down an offer from the dodgers…THAT MAKES HIM A PERENNIAL AS
    i notice that you have no prob with the choice of beltran over mccutcheon…damned east coast bias
    hope the giants win it all again…and bochy picks his entire pen and if and tells you all to eff off

  14. GB

    “If he were to give up five runs in five innings in his next start that sparkling ERA to which his supporters point, would balloon to 2.52. ” GTFO of here with that rubbish Olbermann. And if he throws 8 shutout innnings? You’re talking hypotheticals just to prove your hate of anything Giants. You fail. Miserably.

  15. Lukas

    The bigger question is how is Jeter an all-star?

    You obviously haven’t watched Vogelsong pitch this year or are afraid to give the Giants any credit

  16. Josh

    “In one category and one category alone does Vogelsong best the Braves’ righthander (Hanson).”

    What about walks/9 innings and losses? Vogelsong (2.88 bb/9, 1 loss) bests Hanson (3.18 bb/9,4 losses) in those categories too.

    Don’t be selective in what categories you’re looking at if you’re going to say that stats are all that matters.

  17. Sriram

    For a smart guy, I’m surprised KO doesn’t use things like FanGraphs … or look at FIP which gives a stronger case …

    Vogelsong has been good, but his ERA/FIP gap is over a run. His team defense and luck has had a lot to do with his 2.13 ERA. Hanson also seems to have an unsustainable BABIP/defense edge (an ERA 0.5 runs lower than his fundamentals).

    The wins matter – sort of, maybe. KO’s case about wins correlating to pitchers leans too much in to that “knowing how to win” baloney. After all a year ago, Felix was a much better pitcher than CC, but just on a much worse team. If you want to give a Cy Young to somebody based on a stat he might have 20% to do with – fine.

  18. Sam

    It’s funny you’re arguing about a pitcher who is 6-1 with a 2.13 (especially when his manager manages the NL team). And of course Giants fans didn’t applaud Colby Lewis– they had a dog in this fight. But do you have one Keith? You already trashed Giants fans for gloating more than the usual fans do after winning a championship (I think a free pass is given when a city has never experienced a World Series title, and a franchise hasn’t won it since 1954). Birdsong– I mean, Vogelsong– may be less deserving than Tommy Hanson, but when you say Felix Hernandez winning the Cy was “foolishness” your argument loses a lot of steam. I’m a big fan of your political views but I sometimes find your views on baseball to be rather curious to say the least. The Yankees using a 3-man rotation in the 2009 playoffs would cost them the World Series? Mitch Williams is one of the best TV analysts today? The constant harping on Jeter like you hold a personal grudge? Those questions reveal any “agenda” I may have, because I’m not trying to hound you. But it seems you have an agenda against the Giants.

    • Sam

      This has nothing to do with Keith being a Yankee fan. He criticizes the Yankees too– sometimes in bizarre ways. For instance, on the Royals broadcast during a KC/Yankee game he told Ryan Lefebvre and Frank White that the Yankees made moves in the offseason that you might expect a small market team like Pittsburgh or KC to make– Colon, Garcia, Chavez, guys like that. He said this was an indication the Yankees were in trouble. Well, not only have most of those guys played well for the Yankees it’s more indicative of how the Yankees will take a chance on a so-called has-been because they have the money to spare. Not that it cost a lot to sign Colon. But it’s just this kind of disingenuous hand-wringing and nit-picking about the Yankees that makes Keith sound irrational. And he does the same about the Giants. I wonder if he devoted this much space when Francona picked Varitek. And the obligatory picks for each team often aren’t all that impressive either– Ty Wigginton last year, as well as Fausto Carmona. So if Bochy wants to stick up for one of his guys, and maybe inspire him for the second half by showing the manager has his back, more power to the Giants’ manager.

  19. Eric C Hazlett

    You moron writers assume that the All-Star game is about having the best players on the field? LOL!!!! It’s never been that way and as long as Fans vote, and Managers can pick their own players it’ll never be that way.

    Oh, and Vogelsong should be an All-Star this year regardless. His stats are good enough.

  20. Richard Hershberger

    I find the Lincecum discussion more interesting that the Vogelsong discussion. Keith thinks Lincecum probably shouldn’t be an all-star this year, but grants that past performance makes it reasonable.

    What should the criteria for the all-star team be? For all that the subject gets beaten into the ground each year, I rarely see any thought put into this basic question. A lot of people seem to implicitly hold that an all-star is someone who has had a really good first half of the season. In its extreme version this is narrowed to a really good June.

    This seems to me just about the least interesting way imaginable for choosing all-stars. Here’s a more interesting (in my opinion) criterion: select the team to bring together a collection of great players, even if their best years are behind them. Make the all-star game a celebration of greatness, not merely of currently very goodness.

    Here’s another possible criterion: use the all-star game as a vehicle for bringing to our attention players we would do well to notice. Some years ago I read a column bitching about the rule that every team sends at least one player. The writer’s example of some no-name non-entity that no one had ever heard of on some loser club? Jimmy Rollins.

    Maybe this is about Vogelsong after all. I don’t follow the NL west, so I was only vaguely aware of him. But putting him on the team has brought him to my attention. Outstanding!

  21. Sabes

    Baseball NEEDS a story like Vogelsong…Disney should pick up the story and make a movie.

    If you’re going to complain about a player not deserving to be an All-Star why don’t you pay attention where it belongs? With Jeter…and not Vogelsong.

  22. Pingback: Keith Olbermann: Kind of Right, Kind of Wrong, Kind of a Jerk « Bay City Ball | Giants Baseball with a Side of STATS!
  23. David Barley

    It’s SIMPLE! The Giants are a FIRST place team, and who is their best pitcher half way through the year? RYAN VOGELSONG! That means he deserves it over a guy who’s team is in 2nd place.

  24. sean

    Uhm, wait what? Like seriously, what? If Tommy Hanson gave up 5 earned runs in his next 5 inning start, he’d have a 2.66 ERA soooo ya…did Keith Olbermann really just use a hypothetical situation as an argument? Yikes. Hanson probably is a little more deserving than Vogelsong, but not tremendously so. And every other pitcher on this list doesn’t compare remotely.

  25. Pingback: Twitter Talk | Des Moines Sports Freaks
  26. majake01

    Since when has the All Star game been about the best players being selected? It is a popularity contest. It is a marketing tool for MLB and TV to drum up revenue. In addition, it is the winning manager’s prerogotive to pick whoever the heck he wants. To the victor go the spoils!

  27. whiskers00

    I’m an SF Giants fan & I completely agree w/ K. Olbermann on this. Not an All-Star. But WINS are severely DEVALUED nowadays, esp. on a team like the Giants where every night it’s a 2-2 score in the 7th inning. Felix Hernandez just won the CY Young with 13 Wins. Still, RV not an All-Star. Lincecum is.

  28. teacherino

    What a wonderful discussion. But it’s all academic. Vogelsong is an All Star. While Kimbrel should be, and Hanson should be…they aren’t. Venters is. That’s where the argument should focus on – why Venters over Kimbrel or Hanson? But it doesn’t matter. Venters is an All Star. Kimbrel and Hanson aren’t.

    As for Vogelsong…he is the best pitcher on the Giants right now. End of story. Fact is, I think if Buster, Freddy, and Panda had not gotten hurt, they would be All Stars, too. But they got hurt, so they aren’t (though don’t be surprised if Panda gets picked as a replacement on Sunday night).

    And there’s no way in hell that 8 Yankees should have gone to the game last year. But they did.

    I’ve believed Vogelsong would be an All Star after his Mother’s Day performance against the Rockies. Stories like his are important to the game. That, and he is one of the top pitchers in the major leagues this year.

    I don’t see anyone asking why Chipper Jones is on the All Star team. Well, wait, I will.

    Why is Chipper Jones on the All-Star team? He’s not even the fifth best third baseman in the NL.

  29. teacherino

    As it is, I think it’s really endearing you don’t like the Giants, Keith. I’m serious. I mean, any team that can win three post-season series as the visiting team merits a little respect, doesn’t it?

  30. Bryce

    I stumbled across this post because one of my favorite Giants blogs picked it up and gave you a shout out for your arrogance and delusion.

    The argument against you isn’t because you don’t think Vogelsong should be an all star; it’s because you called his pick “Desperate homerism, pathetic, embarrassing”. It’s just incorrect. There is one pitcher you can make a legitimate case for. Tommy Hanson is really good. No one denies that. He probably should have gone over Vogelsong. He probably should have gone over Lincecum. Pablo should have gone over Polanco in ’09. Managers take players they know. Fans pick names out of a hat. Somehow Jeter makes it every year. I’m surprised Griffey didn’t get voted as a starter this year.

    Your metrics and expectations don’t flow in a logical sense. Do you want to go by wins? I can’t tell because you threw out a bunch of easily accessible stats to prove how good Vogelsong has been. You cite run support as a comparable metric for the other pitchers without providing Vogelsong’s run support. His run support is 4.06. That’s Jered Weaver level. He’s left 3 tied games where he gave up 2 runs or less. He’s left 2 games where he was losing despite giving up 2 runs or less. Aside from that one-13 run outburst, his run support is pathetic. Think of that 4.06 mark without that 13 run outlier where the ump wouldn’t give any called strikes; the number wouldn’t be as pretty.

    Less easily accessible stats show he’s had the 14th most effective fastball of any starting pitcher. Combine that with a pretty decent change up, a plus curve, and a useable cutter. Yeah, he’s a pretty damn good pitcher if he can keep the walks down like he has. Vogelsong also hits, which is nice in a pitcher.

    Now Keith, what qualifies you to question the selection? Is it because you worked on ESPN 15 years ago? Maybe it’s because you once had a Football pre-game show? I get that you talked about sports once upon a time, but obviously, you’re out of touch. Just because you are a public persona doesn’t mean you should speak out on topics you just can’t understand. Baseball, apparently, is one of those topics.

  31. walt kovacs

    vogelsong just went 7 and gave up 2 er

    he now qualifies for the 4TH BEST ERA IN THE NL


  32. barbj2

    No, he doesn’t. Not all Giants fans disagree with Keith, I don’t. The way Vogelsong pitched tonight kind of proved Keith’s point. He gutted his way out of it, but he gave up a lot of hits and walks. He also will not be on the ERA leaderboard come Sunday, because the innings clock will be reset and he will once again be seven innings away from qualifying. He just is not ready to be picked as an All-Star. I watched tonight’s game and the fans were getting restless and even booing at some points. Giants fans are brutal and have short memories. I somehow think Ryan would have been better off getting those days off than sweltering in Arizona and likely not even getting in the game. Though I’m sure his family and friends are thrilled.

    • walt kovacs

      the fans were booing the replacement umps k-zone, you tool

      there isnt one true giants fan who thinks that vsong doesnt belong on the as squad

      you are a dodgers fan

  33. Michael Green

    The beauty of this is as follows: like history, baseball is an argument without end. Bruce Bochy could have selected ten pitchers who have pitched only perfect games all year, and someone could and would argue that he ignored five better-qualified pitchers. But I’ll invoke Joe McCarthy–not the witch-hunter; the manager. In 1943, he managed the American League all-star team and did not play any of the five Yankees on the team. Today, those players would be crying to the general manager. Back then, his players respected him too much to mess with him.

  34. Jimmy

    with all due respect
    what would you think if someone post “why mlblogskeitholbermann1 have no idea about what he says” ????

  35. Aaron Campbell


    Sorry but this whole anti-Giants kick is really starting to wear thin. Did you cheer when Buster Posey went down in May? (Good – that’ll shut up those whiny northern Californians once and for all!) Is it because no one in the front office or the clubhouse has sat down and discussed a prized Honus Wagner card with you? Are you still pissed about the whole Barry Bonds show?

    It’s 2011. The Giants won the World Series last year, are sitting 3 games up in the division in first place at the All-Star break, and have 52 wins over 40 losses so far. They’ve had injuries to stars and starters, just like all the other contenders. They’ve beaten good teams at home and on the road… and they’ve lost some stinkers too. Just like everybody else. While the conventional wisdom salivates at a Philadelphia-Boston/Yankees World Series this season… the Giants have overcome adversity and obstacles so far to inject themselves into the postseason conversation. The defending champions, I hasten to add once more…

    I’m not going to get into name caling or personal attacks. It doesn’t matter what one man’s opinion counts for these days. I’m a San Francisco Giants fan. Been one for lots of average seasons, a few bad ones and a couple of sublime ones. I’m going to root for my team win or lose, good days or rotten.

    It’s just discouraging to hear people like yourself using your prominent media platform and access to disparage fans like myself and the team we root for. The Giants have done ZERO — absolute zero — to warrant this kind of derisive scorn you heap upon them at the first and every opportunity.

    May the best team be standing in the end. Quit being such a horse’s ass about it. (I lied about the personal attack and name calling — that did feel good.)

    Aaron Campbell
    San Francisco Giants fan

  36. SarahJo

    Oh, f*ck you. When you can pitch well enough to even be considered for the All-Star team, thats when you can start criticizing the people who are actually on it. Your crappy blog isnt a good bully pulpit anyway, but I hope you’re having fun. Jerkoff.

    • Comrade Kevin

      That may be the stupidest baseball comment I have seen in a long time. If what you’ve said about qualifications for judging all-stars is true, then you’re even less qualified to comment on the game than Olbermann is. After all, your handle indicates you’re female, and I don’t think any females have ever played in the Majors. Do you really want to suggest that?

      • Russell Ray

        Well, actually she wasn’t criticizing the all star pitcher, she’s criticizing olbermann.. so her logic wouldn’t fall back on her like u say.. LoL

  37. Mike Beusch

    Hey Keith! Any thoughts on Vogelsong assuming the NL ERA lead? Or are you busy calculating what his ERA will be if he gives up five plus earned runs in his next start?

  38. Russell Ray

    Vogelsong.. 2.03 era.. Best in NL.. Speaking as a party without a vested intrest either way, sounds like the guy deserved it. If I recall, bochy didn’t even use any giants pitchers in AS game.. Sounds to me like there’s a writer with some hurt feelings here to me

  39. Pingback: Previewing the Giants’ Starting Rotation « Candlestick Conscience
  40. Pingback: Bay Area Sports Guy – Assorted thoughts on Giants fans stuffing the All-Star Game ballot inbox

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s